Secondary fermentation

[FirebladeAdam]

Hi all. I have begun to wonder about decanting into another fermenter for secondary. Who does it? What was the moment you realised it was better? I don't do it, I just let the ferm go for two weeks in one fermenter. Is it worth the exposure to oxygen? Using my kit it would undoubtedly be exposed to oxygen, so is it worth it? What do others do?
Thanks!
And sorry if this is rehashed subject matter

 

[Agentgonzo]

I've never used a secondary. In my opinion, it's one of those things that was 'common practise' that people did because other people did it. A lot of people don't use it anymore.

For me, it's an extra step of cleaning and exposure to oxygen that brings nothing to the beer. I just bottle straight from the fermenter.

 

[FirebladeAdam]

I totally agree with the above! I saw a Malt Miller video not long ago explaining how to use a starter kit and he had 'transferring to secondary' in the process, I thought to myself 'should I be doing this?'!

 

[Dutto]

…………
And sorry if this is rehashed subject matter

I too don’t bother moving a brew for secondary fermentation for all the reasons previously given,

I’ve quoted you to say that there is no reason whatsoever to apologise!

I’ve been home brewing since 1967 (with a few breaks) and I still have to ask questions, so I’m pretty sure that almost everything I ask has been asked before!

Anyone who thinks or says they know all there is to know about brewing deludes themselves; because so much of what we do is personal to our own taste.

 

[Eskdale]

If I am going to dry hop and want to harvest the yeast I will transfer to secondary, if not I dont bother.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

For bottling I always transfer to a secondary which is my bottling bucket. I then leave for 3-4 days for the beer to clear and bottle.

 

[StJayJay]

I used to when I first started but ditched it and never had any issues. As long as primary had completed and I’d done anything I needed like dry hopping, I would move into a bottling bucket, bottle and condition as required. I use cornies now but same thing, rack to keg and condition/carbonate. One exception would be the odd occasions I’ve done pseudo barrel ageing type things and I’ve racked into another vessel (I use an old king keg for that ) and left for a few months.

 

[FirebladeAdam]

So bottling buckets seem a popular trick... I guess this is to keep beer clear? It doesn't disturb the sediment? But that also is oxygen exposure isn't it? But for a shorter time before bottling, is that right?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

A bottling bucket, tap and wand means you are filling the bottle from the bottom so pushing the air out as you fill. I have never had any oxidation problems but I don’t make NEIPA’s with 100-200g of hops.

 

[Sadfield]

Quite often for various reasons.

1) When trying the practice of 'Double Drop' or when using my open FV. I'll drop to a standard airlocked FV after 1-3 days when the bulk of esters have been produced. A pro brewer suggested a good rule of thumb is to aim to transfer before you hit 50% attenuation.

2) After fermenting in a standard fv, I sometimes use a purged with co2, corny keg as a secondary fv, maturation vessel, bright tank, dry hop tank or with wood to recreate barrel ageing. Before moving the beer to another keg or bottling. Usually for strong beers or ones brewed with diastatic yeast strains, like Saisons.

3) I use a corny keg as a secondary fv for secondary fermentations with brettanomyces and other wild yeasts.

Secondary FVs can be seen as a relic of old school homebrew advice, or another tool to use to be creative in the styles you brew.

 

[The Baron]

I do not secondary at all as I see it as the most chance to oxidise the beer beacause at that time it is beer. I just bottle or keg off the Fv and do my dry hopping in the Fv too again to minimise any unnecessary potential exposure to Air/Oxygen

 

[FirebladeAdam]

A bottling bucket, tap and wand means you are filling the bottle from the bottom so pushing the air out as you fill. I have never had any oxidation problems but I don’t make NEIPA’s with 100-200g of hops.

Yes, that's exactly what I do, but I bottle from the FV. I guess the bottling bucket is in place to avoid sediment in the bottles?

 

[FirebladeAdam]

Quite often for various reasons.

1) When trying the practice of 'Double Drop' or when using my open FV. I'll drop to a standard airlocked FV after 1-3 days when the bulk of esters have been produced. A pro brewer suggested a good rule of thumb is to aim to transfer before you hit 50% attenuation.

2) After fermenting in a standard fv, I sometimes use a purged with co2, corny keg as a secondary fv, maturation vessel, bright tank, dry hop tank or with wood to recreate barrel ageing. Before moving the beer to another keg or bottling. Usually for strong beers or ones brewed with diastatic yeast strains, like Saisons.

3) I use a corny keg as a secondary fv for secondary fermentations with brettanomyces and other wild yeasts.

Secondary FVs can be seen as a relic of old school homebrew advice, or another tool to use to be creative in the styles you brew.

So in the case of 1, you're avoiding esters, 2, this is the question entirely; why? Why not do that in the original fv and avoid the O2 exposure?
3, I completely understand!
TIA

 

[Sadfield]

So in the case of 1, you're avoiding esters, 2, this is the question entirely; why? Why not do that in the original fv and avoid the O2 exposure?
3, I completely understand!
TIA

1) The opposite, more esters in the open fv, then moved to a closed fv when exposure to oxygen becomes problematic.

2) Oxygen has been removed from the receiving keg and replaced with co2, so there should be negligible oxygen exposure. The advantages can be, removing yeast and trub when ageing, introducing less O2 when dry hopping, etc. Plastic fv's aren't ideal for ageing beer as they can be permiable to oxygen. There's other things I can do. Such as carbonate beer naturally as you would with cask, or put the keg somewhere cold to lager, like outside in winter. All freeing up the fv and brew fridge.

Sometimes is just a handy, safe, oxygen free environment to hold beer in, when other commitments get in the way of brewing. I don't need to worry if its fully fermented out and safe to bottle. Particularly when you factor in diastatic yeasts or hop creep. I can transfer to keg and let it fully attenuate and condition, then bottle, or keg and carbonate at later date.

I see secondary as a process, not another plastic bucket.

 

[FirebladeAdam]

1) The opposite, more esters in the open fv, then moved to a closed fv when exposure to oxygen becomes problematic.

2) Oxygen has been removed from the receiving keg and replaced with co2, so there should be negligible oxygen exposure. The advantages can be, removing yeast and trub when ageing, introducing less O2 when dry hopping, etc. Plastic fv's aren't ideal for ageing beer as they can be permiable to oxygen. There's other things I can do. Such as carbonate beer naturally as you would with cask, or put the keg somewhere cold to lager, like outside in winter. All freeing up the fv and brew fridge.

Sometimes is just a handy, safe, oxygen free environment to hold beer in, when other commitments get in the way of brewing. I don't need to worry if its fully fermented out and safe to bottle. Particularly when you factor in diastatic yeasts or hop creep. I can transfer to keg and let it fully attenuate and condition, then bottle, or keg and carbonate at later date.

I see secondary as a process, not another plastic bucket.

Thank you. Succinct answer! Although I still don't fully understand the idea of moving beer from an open to a closed fv... Isn't it closed anyway with the airlock? My understanding is that the O2 and air is pushed out of the airlock by the co2 produced by the ferm. So if esters form (some styles want this I know) 02 isn't the factor, the fatty acids and other proteins are. Sorry I still don't understand the benefits; I get the bottling bucket thing. But I still don't understand why, for someone like me with no closed transfer kit, it's worth it. What are we preventing?

 

[Sadfield]

Open fv, as in this...



... Only less dramatic like this...

 

[FirebladeAdam]

Ok, I see! but why wouldn't you just put an airlock on it from the beginning and not bother transferring? What the difference? What are you preventing/saving?
Sierra Nevada is a great beer; the very epitome of Cascade!

 

[Sadfield]

Ok, I see! but why wouldn't you just put an airlock on it from the beginning and not bother transferring? What the difference? What are you preventing/saving?
Sierra Nevada is a great beer; the very epitome of Cascade!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/4-reasons-to-try-open-fermentation/
Different types of fv's for different types of brewing, giving the options to achieve different things from primary and secondary fermentation.