Secondary Fermentation

[CoxyBoy123]

Think i am having trouble batch priming........

Had a bottle of grand cru a couple of weeks ago (slingt top bottle), was perfect condition just needed to age more.

Had two more last night, admittedly on bottles where i didnt think the caps had gone on right, and there wasnt really any condition. tried another one where the cap was perfect and it was slightly better, very clear beer.

So i am thinking, is my beer not being stored cold enough to absorb the Co2 as there is a pssstt when i open it, orrr is it the crown caps letting Co2 out....... or has the sugar not mixed right when batch priming? (my thought with this is, I always bottle the sling tops first, so surely the sling top wouldnt get any sugar if this was the issue?

Just concerned as i have just bottled another 100 bottles using the same method

 

[alanywiseman.]

do you add the bear to the sugar solution or the sugar solution to the beer?

Do you stir it once added?

What temps are you storing at?

May be able to help with a little more info

 

[CoxyBoy123]

do you add the bear to the sugar solution or the sugar solution to the beer?

Do you stir it once added?

What temps are you storing at?

May be able to help with a little more info

I dissolved in about 200ml of water, into FV then syphoned beer on top. Didnt stir, assumed that it would of mixed enough.

In my lower ground bedroom, so around 14 -15 perhaps

 

[calumscott]

Temperature, pressure and solubility are all inter-related.

At lower temperature you can get more gas dissolved in your beer.
At higher pressure you can get more gas dissolved in your beer.

In truth, it's the pressure generated during fermentation in a sealed environment (your bottle) that produces the pressure which pushes more CO2 into solution. Temperature is an entirely secondary consideration.

Primary fermentation saturates your beer with CO2 at atmospheric pressure - i.e. all the CO2 that CAN dissolve in it does. The yeast continue to produce masses of it which CAN'T dissolve and that is what comes bubbling out of your airlock.

If you fermented at a lower temperature, you'd get more molecules of CO2 in solution.

Here's the problem:

You prime your bottles and seal them. There is some CO2 in solution from primary fermentation and there is a finite amount of CO2 that can be produced and a finite total volume of the vessel.

That total volume of CO2 once created by the yeast remains in the bottle either as free gas in the headspace or dissolved in the beer. The two are in balance. If you decrease the temperature the liquid can in theory absorb more CO2. Assuming that the pressure in the bottle remains above 1bar, that means you get more fizz when you pour.

Remember "fizz" is your perception - in reality it is the gas forced into the beer coming back out of solution as the pressure is released and/or the temperature is increased.

So the ideal is to allow your yeast to do all of their job in the bottle, then store your beer cool for a short time (hours is probably plenty) prior to pouring. Your beer may pour looking flattish but it will have the maximum CO2 still in solution.

As soon as that hits a nice warm tongue...

...fizz. :thumb:

 

[CoxyBoy123]

Temperature, pressure and solubility are all inter-related.

At lower temperature you can get more gas dissolved in your beer.
At higher pressure you can get more gas dissolved in your beer.

In truth, it's the pressure generated during fermentation in a sealed environment (your bottle) that produces the pressure which pushes more CO2 into solution. Temperature is an entirely secondary consideration.

Primary fermentation saturates your beer with CO2 at atmospheric pressure - i.e. all the CO2 that CAN dissolve in it does. The yeast continue to produce masses of it which CAN'T dissolve and that is what comes bubbling out of your airlock.

If you fermented at a lower temperature, you'd get more molecules of CO2 in solution.

Here's the problem:

You prime your bottles and seal them. There is some CO2 in solution from primary fermentation and there is a finite amount of CO2 that can be produced and a finite total volume of the vessel.

That total volume of CO2 once created by the yeast remains in the bottle either as free gas in the headspace or dissolved in the beer. The two are in balance. If you decrease the temperature the liquid can in theory absorb more CO2. Assuming that the pressure in the bottle remains above 1bar, that means you get more fizz when you pour.

Remember "fizz" is your perception - in reality it is the gas forced into the beer coming back out of solution as the pressure is released and/or the temperature is increased.

So the ideal is to allow your yeast to do all of their job in the bottle, then store your beer cool for a short time (hours is probably plenty) prior to pouring. Your beer may pour looking flattish but it will have the maximum CO2 still in solution.

As soon as that hits a nice warm tongue...

...fizz. :thumb:

Thank you very much for the info, the poor capped bottles were only fridged for 30 mins prior, i will have a go over the weekend at cooling them for a couple of hours and see what happens

 

[alanywiseman.]

Temperature, pressure and solubility are all inter-related.

At lower temperature you can get more gas dissolved in your beer.
At higher pressure you can get more gas dissolved in your beer.

In truth, it's the pressure generated during fermentation in a sealed environment (your bottle) that produces the pressure which pushes more CO2 into solution. Temperature is an entirely secondary consideration.

Primary fermentation saturates your beer with CO2 at atmospheric pressure - i.e. all the CO2 that CAN dissolve in it does. The yeast continue to produce masses of it which CAN'T dissolve and that is what comes bubbling out of your airlock.

If you fermented at a lower temperature, you'd get more molecules of CO2 in solution.

Here's the problem:

You prime your bottles and seal them. There is some CO2 in solution from primary fermentation and there is a finite amount of CO2 that can be produced and a finite total volume of the vessel.

That total volume of CO2 once created by the yeast remains in the bottle either as free gas in the headspace or dissolved in the beer. The two are in balance. If you decrease the temperature the liquid can in theory absorb more CO2. Assuming that the pressure in the bottle remains above 1bar, that means you get more fizz when you pour.

Remember "fizz" is your perception - in reality it is the gas forced into the beer coming back out of solution as the pressure is released and/or the temperature is increased.

So the ideal is to allow your yeast to do all of their job in the bottle, then store your beer cool for a short time (hours is probably plenty) prior to pouring. Your beer may pour looking flattish but it will have the maximum CO2 still in solution.

As soon as that hits a nice warm tongue...

...fizz. :thumb:

What he said

I does not seem like you are doing anything wrong. Maybe just a bit more time and cooling prior to drinking. I believe the longer you mature your beers the smaller and finer the bubbles that are produced when poured. I am sure it will improve with time.

 

[CoxyBoy123]

Just to open this thread open again, just opened a bottle of this and it was volcanic and very conditioned..... All my brews have been fined so hopefully I will put it down to being unlucky haha

 

[winelight]

I've not been able to figure it out, I always do the same and some bottles are almost flat, and some fizz up like crazy and spill out.

 

[Good Ed]

I've not been able to figure it out, I always do the same and some bottles are almost flat, and some fizz up like crazy and spill out.

Try stirring, I thought the siphoning would mix the sugar solution properly but found it doesn't with me, so I always give it a gentle stir after racking off before bottling.