Secondary Fermentation then into Bottles - yeast required?

[JimSY]

Hi all,

I've just finished fermenting eight litres of Barley Wine which I brewed last Sunday (the 5th). I've racked it to a secondary fermenter (well, two, actually, one with cacao nibs and vanilla, the other without) and I intend to leave them both for two weeks as per an article I read when researching the recipe. I've had three readings of 1.016 on Friday, Sunday and today (Monday) and I'm confident that it has fermented all it intends to. With that in mind, when I come to bottle it in a fortnight will I need to add additional yeast in order to achieve sufficient carbonation? I've read a little about beer that has spent some time in the secondary not carbonating properly.

If so, does anyone have any suggestions about how much yeast and what sort?

As a slight aside, I thought I'd jiggered the batch on brew-day - rushed the yeast and the cooling (it took so long 'cos of the heatwave) and it didn't reach 20-22 degrees 'til about 48 hours later (again, 'cos it was so warm!). It smells and tastes OK and I'm reasonably confident that it will be drinkable but is there anything nasty that I should look for that isn't visible to the naked eye, nose and taste-bud given the circumstances?

Many, many thanks in advance, any advice would be much appreciated!

Jim

 

[LeeH]

I donkt think you can drop any where enough yeast out of suspension just by leaving it in the secondary for 2 weeks. Even after crashing bottles still carb up ok.

 

[foxbat]

For a barley wine, yes, do it for insurance. CBC-1 is the one to use if you can get it.

[edit] More of the original yeast should also be OK and you're more likely to have some if it was dry yeast. Danstar CBC-1 is a bottling yeast that's often used for RIS, barley wine etc. where the original yeast may have lost the vitality needed to wake up and get fermenting again in a high alcohol environment. I would avoid any strain that's supposed attenuate more than whatever you originally used as you may get bottle bombs!

 

[JimSY]

LeeH, foxbat, many thanks for your replies.

If I was to err on the side of caution and use yeast, how much would you recommend? There's 8 litres to go in ~24 330ml bottles?

Thanks again, guys.

Ta - Jim

 

[Zephyr259]

I've used the CBC-1 in a 9% Belgian ale which aged for 4 months and it worked well, think I underprimed due to less residual CO2 though. 2 weeks in secondary and you should be fine without re-yeasting but it's a nice insurance policy, only issue is that CBC-1 is a few quid a pack and I've only seen it at thehomebrewcompany.co.uk so you also have shipping to consider and have to wait for delivery. With long aged sours I've read folks adding 2g of wine/champagne yeast to a 5 gal batch since they only really like to eat simple sugars.

What abv is your barleywine and what yeast did you ferment with?

 

[foxbat]

Fermentis Safbrew F-2 is also a bottling yeast the same as CBC-1. It's available at the malt miller for £2.80 but of course there's delivery on top of that. Interesting about the champagne yeast. That stuff is cheap and I didn't know it only consumed simple sugars.

To give you an idea of usage rate, Fermentis say 2 to 7 g/hl (1hl = 100 litres).

 

[Zephyr259]

Fermentis Safbrew F-2 is also a bottling yeast the same as CBC-1. It's available at the malt miller for £2.80 but of course there's delivery on top of that. Interesting about the champagne yeast. That stuff is cheap and I didn't know it only consumed simple sugars.

To give you an idea of usage rate, Fermentis say 2 to 7 g/hl (1hl = 100 litres).

Wine yeasts are a bit of a weird thing, folks add champagne yeast when they get a stalled (or too high a finished) fermentation thinking that because it's very alchohol tolerant and ferments a dry wine that it'll do the same in beer. Most of the anecdotal evidence and feedback suggests it almost never works, makes sense given that they are used to fermenting grape juice which all simple sugar. Some may be able to ferment maltose but not maltotriose which still makes them useless for drying out a brew (but could restart a stuck ferment if it stuck with maltose left) and good for bottle conditioning.

It's all anecdote though, no actual hard evidence I believe. The madfermentationist did brew a batch with a wine yeast but the bugs would have finished it off. The compleat meadmaker book has 2 braggots fermented with wine yeast and expects them to finish at fairly low FGs (1.012 from memory), when a forum did a big brew of it all but 1 or 2 stalled at 1.030.

 

[JimSY]

Hi foxbat, Zephyr259,

Thanks for the response.

I have been researching an imperial stout that I'm hoping to do, hopefully conditioning it over oak chips for a few months so I've stumbled on the potential need to re-yeast purely by accident while doing this. While scouring the forums a few posts say that champagne yeast works, a few say it doesn't.

I used Safale 04 English Ale (and have a spare pack in the fridge) and the ABV is about 9.2%, give or take.

Cheers guys.

 

[Zephyr259]

Given it got down to 1.016 the yeast probably wasn't that stressed and should be able to carbonate, a gram or 2 of fresh rehydrated yeast can't hurt though.

 

[JimSY]

Given it got down to 1.016 the yeast probably wasn't that stressed and should be able to carbonate, a gram or 2 of fresh rehydrated yeast can't hurt though.

Nice one, Zephyr - I think I'll use the yeast, just to be on the safe-side. I want it to sit for a few months before I touch it (or at least I'll try my hardest not to touch it!) and the last thing I want is to wait patiently for six months only to find it's flat!