School opening. [poll]

[Mrhandsome]

I don't have kids but I wouldn't send them to school if I did, not for the sake of a month before the summer holidays start anyway.

Call me crazy but I feel like the government has lost this fight and are now giving us advice contrary to what is actually effective to prevent the spread. Then when the numbers go even further out of control they'll say we didn't listen to their advice properly and blame the general public.

How is it OK for a classroom of children to attend school and not visit relatives or friends? Do we really think they'll effectively social distance crammed into classrooms? Why can we now see one person from outside our household? Can we see another the next day? What about visiting one parent, does dad hide upstairs whilst we have a catchup with mum? Will they not see each other later IN THE SAME HOUSE? None of the new advice makes any sense other than a veiled attempt to push the herd immunity ideology. Also don't go to work or use public transport unless you have to. I mean you wouldn't unless you had to, what a pointless bit of advice.

The narrative in the media has already changed to shift the blame on the people, and the people will eat it up. I'm astounded that there isn't a national uproar about being the second highest in reported deaths, yet the governments approval rating is up! Remember when Italy reported 1000 deaths and we were horrified? Then it happens here and it's all fine and dandy. I really don't get it.

Anyway.... Rant over.

Public schools should open when Eton opens, which is September at the earliest.

 

[Zephyr259]

We would send ours back, our school is pretty switched on with everything but mostly for their own mental well being, the boy's in P1, he's doing ok with lockdown and enjoying "school of mum" but the 4 yo in nursery is getting borderline depressed due to missing her friends and not being able to socialise, it's heartbreaking and really damaging at that age.

 

[Session]

The mask doesn't protect you it protects others from you i cannot see kids wearing a mask all day so you will be at bigger risk of getting C19 than if you and your kids were at home.

All masks will protect the user Chippy. Valved masks only protect the user, not those around them, so are useless for stopping spread of the virus if the individual is infected. Surgical masks will protect both the user and others around them.

 

[terrym]

All masks will protect the user Chippy.

Non medical masks offer very little protection for the user. Their main purpose, if worn, is to limit the spread of infection by an infected person, say in the pre-symptomatic period.
This is what the WHO have to say about medical masks, let alone something you knocked out on that ancient Singer sewing machine which has been in the loft, using a pair of old pants having looked at a Youtube video, and when worn has huge gaps round the side.

Wearing a medical mask is one of the prevention measures that can limit the spread of certain respiratory viral diseases, including COVID-19. However, the use of a mask alone is insufficient to provide an adequate level of protection, and other measures should also be adopted. Whether or not masks are used, maximum compliance with hand hygiene and other IPC measures is critical to prevent human-to-human transmission of COVID-19.
Source:-
https://www.who.int/publications-de...of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

 

[Session]

Non medical masks offer very little protection for the user. Their main purpose, if worn, is to limit the spread of infection by an infected person, say in the pre-symptomatic period.
This is what the WHO have to say about medical masks, let alone something you knocked out on that ancient Singer sewing machine which has been in the loft, using a pair of old pants having looked at a Youtube video, and when worn has huge gaps round the side.

Wearing a medical mask is one of the prevention measures that can limit the spread of certain respiratory viral diseases, including COVID-19. However, the use of a mask alone is insufficient to provide an adequate level of protection, and other measures should also be adopted. Whether or not masks are used, maximum compliance with hand hygiene and other IPC measures is critical to prevent human-to-human transmission of COVID-19.
Source:-
https://www.who.int/publications-de...of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

Hi Terry - sorry I should have been more specific. I wasn’t suggesting that the act of just wearing something over your mouth and nose will offer 100% protection from coronavirus, I was making the general point that masks provide some level of protection for the user, but not necessarily others around them.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

@Session

All masks will protect the user Chippy. Valved masks only protect the user, not those around them, so are useless for stopping spread of the virus if the individual is infected. Surgical masks will protect both the user and others around them.

No they don't as Terry has posted below and this is why (as i have said several times) the Government need to make the message on people wearing masks clearer.

Non medical masks offer very little protection for the user. Their main purpose, if worn, is to limit the spread of infection by an infected person, say in the pre-symptomatic period.
This is what the WHO have to say about medical masks, let alone something you knocked out on that ancient Singer sewing machine which has been in the loft, using a pair of old pants having looked at a Youtube video, and when worn has huge gaps round the side.

Wearing a medical mask is one of the prevention measures that can limit the spread of certain respiratory viral diseases, including COVID-19. However, the use of a mask alone is insufficient to provide an adequate level of protection, and other measures should also be adopted. Whether or not masks are used, maximum compliance with hand hygiene and other IPC measures is critical to prevent human-to-human transmission of COVID-19.
Source:-
https://www.who.int/publications-de...of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

Thanks Terry that saved me a lot of typing.

.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This is where people are getting confused - However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply.


Claim: ‘Face masks don’t work’

Wearing a face mask is certainly not an iron-clad guarantee that you won’t get sick – viruses can also transmit through the eyes and tiny viral particles, known as aerosols, can penetrate masks. However, masks are effective at capturing droplets, which is a main transmission route of coronavirus, and some studies have estimated a roughly fivefold protection versus no barrier alone (although others have found lower levels of effectiveness).

If you are likely to be in close contact with someone infected, a mask cuts the chance of the disease being passed on. If you’re showing symptoms of coronavirus, or have been diagnosed, wearing a mask can also protect others. So masks are crucial for health and social care workers looking after patients and are also recommended for family members who need to care for someone who is ill – ideally both the patient and carer should have a mask.

However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ect-me-from-coronavirus-covid-19-myths-busted

 

[Stephenj]

Not good, what symptoms?

Do you have know where you may have caught it family etc?

Sorry @Chippy_Tea I was being a bit flippant, not in a disrespectful way, and should have put 'might' so it didn't read as if I had any reason to think I did. Touche if your response was tongue in cheek as well

The point I was trying to make was I haven't been tested at any point so could have it theoretically so masks may need to be provided to stop me spreading it if I'm not tested for it. I know 4 people who have tested positive but have shown no symptoms, as outlined by the government or press. As a dad of 2 year 2 kids I would be more comfortable if their teacher was tested it wore a mask.

I don't believe schools or colleges will provide enough safety to protect everyone sufficiently. One big problem at sixth form is the breadth of subject variations students do. Unlike a school where it may be easier to do, students can't remain in a bubble where they are just in one class for the full day with the same people.

 

[Lawrence22]

I voted Yes, but only because over here (NI) the executive have already said the kids won't be going back till September. I hope by then we will be in a better situation. I would also be concerned of the effect of long term isolation on my son, particularly as he is an only child.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

A group of about 70 people have gathered in a park for a "rave" - flouting lockdown rules and telling police they were "sick of self-isolation".

West Mercia Police said a DJ had set up for the party at Granville Country Park in Telford, Shropshire, on Saturday.

"We have worked so hard and sacrificed so much and this group decide it doesn't apply," one officer said.

"I'm shocked that people would care so little," they added.

Police dispersed the group from the Donnington park at about 20:15 BST.


Officers said they "do not fine unless there is no other action open".

They added: "We asked the group to disperse and they did.

"We would ask anyone who is thinking of organising one of these events to think of the bigger picture."

Though lockdown restrictions have been eased in England, government advice states that people should "not gather in groups of more than two" except with members of their household.

The government has warned the coronavirus infection rate will increase if people break the rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-52696720

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The point I was trying to make was I haven't been tested at any point so could have it theoretically so masks may need to be provided to stop me spreading it if I'm not tested for it. I know 4 people who have tested positive but have shown no symptoms, as outlined by the government or press. As a dad of 2 year 2 kids I would be more comfortable if their teacher was tested it wore a mask.

It should be compulsory for people visiting supermarkets etc to wear masks and for the supermarkets to supply them unless you have your own.

 

[MyQul]

It seems the school issue may be a bit of a banana skin for BJ as he seems to have taken a hit in his poll rating (according to the obvserver). If this is true one of his 'trusted' lieutenants (Gavin Williamson?) may find themselves under a bus

 

[marshbrewer]

Mind you, the head teachers union has come out today to say, having seen the evidence, they are happy for a June phased return.....

The school teacher's unions really need to come up with proper scientific evidence now that they believe shows the SAGE scientists have it wrong. Otherwise, my opinion of them will drop significantly and permanently, as playing politics with the lives and wellbeing if the children you teach would be unforgivable.

 

[MickDundee]

Why not wait till Sept? Dont kids break up for holidays at the end of june?

End of July in England I believe. Up here our schools come off end of June and go back mid-August and we’ve pretty much already been told by the Scottish Government not to expect the schools to reopen before the summer.

I’ve always been very sceptical of the SNP but the Scottish Government have handled this very well, especially when you compare Sturgeon to Johnson.

I’ve not answered the poll - we really need a 3rd option of “it depends”. I would want to know where the R rate is sitting, what measures the school are putting in place etc before I was to make any decisions about putting my daughter to school. We’ve already withdrawn my son from nursery when they closed so he will be home until he starts school in August regardless which means it doesn’t make a great deal of difference to us when my daughter goes back.

 

[Bjorn Toulouse]

ditto on the SNP, wee Chesney is better than Boris, but that's a pretty low bar, Glad I don't live in London. The problem with the politicians and their advisors is that they have not got a clue when it comes to schools or this virus. 2 surveys out of Australia that point the way they want it to point and its gospel across the globe?

Australia is not the same as the UK, take a look at the link below then tell me the Australian statistics can be applied to the UK.
January, no arrivals from china, followed by Italy and iran total closure by mid march. Our borders are still open.
Australia has 704 active cases and its total death toll is 99. in the UK 34,636 deaths (not including at home and the 15,000 unexplained.)
3100 poor souls got the virus yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-hotspots-postcode-covid-19-deaths-death-toll

 

[Covrich]

I am happy for my eldest to go back which he will be elligible, they are thrown well out of routine I have to try and work while they are with me and its causing me a headache personally..

HOwever it is only an additional month so it is what it is, I am happy either way.

However in september what happens? I personally think its so niave to just think pushing the problem further up the road thinking its going to be different and okay, I do nto think this is going away at all, so maybe the additional time allows better means to facilitate kids going back to school.

I am not trying to play devils advocate here I just think if we get to the end of the summer and are in the same situation we have to try and move forward with a new normal life. It is the same with grandparents asking when can I hug my granchild again? is it going to be safer in July than April? I am probably being really thick here I just dont get it.. and maybe I am being pessimistic I am in no way saying lets open up and go back to how we were and herd together no way, I just don't think hiding everyone forever is going to work.

I think a vaccine is more hit n hope than anything else, I hope I am wrong

 

[Bjorn Toulouse]

The problem is we never had a proper lockdown. If we did we would not be in the state we are just now. I'm probably going to get flack here but you can only get the virus from water droplets from another person. So until social distancing is observed (think how close the joggers and cyclists get to you) and proper personal disinfecting (shopping, parcels, cloths) and we stop infection from abroad we will be in this mess.

 

[Covrich]

The problem is we never had a proper lockdown. If we did we would not be in the state we are just now. I'm probably going to get flack here but you can only get the virus from water droplets from another person. So until social distancing is observed (think how close the joggers and cyclists get to you) and proper personal disinfecting (shopping, parcels, cloths) and we stop infection from abroad we will be in this mess.

Oh I totally get you, and liek I said on the main thread, we cant even go the right way around a super market.

Personally if someoen wanted to go on a jog on a beach with no one else around I dont think thats a problem but when people aer too lazy to observe rules ina super market I think they are the biggest dangers.

School drop offs are going to be a tricky thing to sort out,but like I said they are going to be tricky in June and tricky in septemeber

 

[Stephenj]

I am not trying to play devils advocate here I just think if we get to the end of the summer and are in the same situation we have to try and move forward with a new normal life. It is the same with grandparents asking when can I hug my granchild again? is it going to be safer in July than April?

I agree. Nothing to suggest it will be any better in September. Will they delay again? There has to be a moment we try to return to normality. A vaccine isn't forthcoming.

 

[Mrhandsome]

It's all a bit smoke and mirrors from the government. You have to ask yourself why they want schools open now, when they may aswell wait until September as the school year is almost up. Remember it's only state schools opening, not private schools.

What we do know is that the R0 is about 0.75 - 1 in the UK at the moment. Let's say its 0.75 for example: for every 100 people with the virus they will spread it to 75 more, and of these 75 it will spread to 52.5 and so on, so a steady trend of the virus numbers going down. This is the reason for the lockdown.

Now let's say one child has the virus and is in a class of 30+ what's the R0 then? Then these 30+ children go home to their parents, what then? And if these parents have to work or out in public?

As it stands we're at about 3500 confirmed cases per day, at R0 of 0.75 this will slowly fall to around 2450, then 1715, then 1200 and so on. With the numbers going down the R0 will also go down increasing the decline of daily cases. It's quite simple maths.

Putting children back into schools at this time is just insane, and personally I think it is intentional.