Russian River's Vinnie Cilurzo on brewing IPAs - The Craft Beer Channel - Interview

[Joetp]

Hey guys,

Just finished listening to this! Some really good info in the interview - worth checking out if you are into West Coast IPAs!



Cheers!

 

[Mayor of Simpleton]

Thanks. This is helpful. I have mostly been listening to podcasts (beersmith and brulosophy) to improve my knowledge and get perspectives of others and not just on this style. I will give this a watch.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

We watched both parts of that as soon as it came out on YouTube - it's really good.

My husband has popped it in his Brewfather to try.

 

[Braufather]

Very good, just watched the first half hour and will watch the rest this evening.

It’s interesting about avoiding about Maris otter, as it’s too bready, but I guess thats for big abv IPAs 6 or 7%ers. so it’s not needed.

I mostly brew about 5% mark so for these more session strengh beers so I’ve been working on the assumption that it Brings more to the party than Pilsner or pale for a west coat IPA.

also interesting about not using caraoils or caramel malts because of oxygen issues. Swapping it all out for Munich.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Ha, I did that too. Have made some tweaks of my own but basically the same. Love a good West Coast IPA.

There is a good Genus Brewing video about alternatives/substitutions for Caramalts for that reason.

Also read an article from Vinnie from about 2016 about how he brews Pliney the Elder and he was saying that they mash and brew for mouthfeel and body and use sugar to crank up the ABV which is an approach I'd not considered...I always considered adding sugar as a bit of a cheat or something for some reason.

 

[Braufather]

I couldn't find the recipe - just interview= could someone post it?

i think they use sugar for high ABVs as all malt at that volume would be too malty so the sugar is there to dry it out a bit

 

[Stu's Brews]

I couldn't find the recipe - just interview= could someone post it?

i think they use sugar for high ABVs as all malt at that volume would be too malty so the sugar is there to dry it out a bit

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/cbc-x-russian-river-ipa/
This is the recipe that they settled on, although that is with the cryo hops swapped out for T90 pellets.

I'm pretty sure that in the video they said they had dropped the hop stand to 20 minutes rather than the 30 minutes stated on that link.

 

[Braufather]

cheers for that. added to the list!

 

[phildo79]

Ha, I did that too. Have made some tweaks of my own but basically the same. Love a good West Coast IPA.

There is a good Genus Brewing video about alternatives/substitutions for Caramalts for that reason.

Also read an article from Vinnie from about 2016 about how he brews Pliney the Elder and he was saying that they mash and brew for mouthfeel and body and use sugar to crank up the ABV which is an approach I'd not considered...I always considered adding sugar as a bit of a cheat or something for some reason.

They mash and brew for MF but then add sugar which could thin the beer? How strange.

 

[Joetp]

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/cbc-x-russian-river-ipa/
This is the recipe that they settled on, although that is with the cryo hops swapped out for T90 pellets.

I'm pretty sure that in the video they said they had dropped the hop stand to 20 minutes rather than the 30 minutes stated on that link.

Good lord - that's an expensive brew hahaha!

I find it interesting how Vinnie talks about how the NEIPA scene has started to influence the West Coast as well and they are hopping cold-side way more than they used to originally. In my own recipes, I've been trying to do a hybrid of both East and West Coast IPAs, so I found that very interesting indeed.

 

[hoppyscotty]

They mash and brew for MF but then add sugar which could thin the beer? How strange.

Well mouthfeel comes from unfermentable sugars doesn't it? So by mashing warm, 68 degs or 69 degs say, you get more unfermentables but to bump up ABV they add the sugar - rather than in a conventional mash where you are targeting ABV you'd lower the mash temp to generate more fermentable sugars to hit the ABV target at the expense of unfermentables and mouthfeel. I think Vinnie mentioned that the sugar adds 2% ABV.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[phildo79]

Well mouthfeel comes from unfermentable sugars doesn't it? So by mashing warm, 68 degs or 69 degs say, you get more unfermentables but to bump up ABV they add the sugar - rather than in a conventional mash where you are targeting ABV you'd lower the mash temp to generate more fermentable sugars to hit the ABV target at the expense of unfermentables and mouthfeel. I think Vinnie mentioned that the sugar adds 2% ABV.

That's my take on it anyway.

You can enhance the MF with various techniques. Wheat malt, oats, lactose etc.. But adding sugar to bump the abv by 2% seems counterintuitive. But they must know what they're doing. That's why they're pros and we brew beer in our kitchens.

 

[Braufather]

They used to use carapils for mouthfeel but as they now avoid cara everything they are manipulating boil temps to achieve the same ends. The sugar was already there I’m guessing so just a minor tweak. That’s my take anyway.

 

[hoppyscotty]

This is an area I'm just starting to research myself but 'thinness' its all about the final gravity. isn't it? The point with beers like Pliney the Elder are they are high ABV double IPA's but with high final gravities. If you are doing this from the malt alone then you need a super high Original Gravity which might be challenging on the equipment or demand alot of grain thereby increasing production costs. Adding sugar gives you more alcohol without lowering your final gravity or impacting flavour or mouthfeel, and bump up the alcohol without having to lower your FG and thinning out the beer.

Go on, I'm still a newbie and fumbling my way through all of this and am probably getting it all wrong. I kind of assume if people like Russian River are doing this then there must be a reason...and lets not forget the Belgians! They like a good high strength beer with tonnes of mouthfeel and body and are not shy of adding a fair amount of sugar to their brews to achieve this.

 

[phildo79]

Looks like this recipe will need tinkered with.

 

[Joetp]

I believe when you mash higher (like has already been said) you add more unfermentable sugars to the beer which increases the mouthfeel and FG. In order to compensate for the loss of ABV they get from using this technique, they add sugar. I believe this is where it's coming from!

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Looks like this recipe will need tinkered with.

Yes -sounds like they use Munich over Crystal/Carapils now!