Reverse Osmosis Water

[strange-steve]

I get about 10L/hr connected to the mains. As for bacteria, I'm far from an expert on RO systems so I don't really know but what you're saying sounds right. I don't use mine for drinking water though, and bacteria isn't really a problem for AG brewing cos it gets boiled anyway. The only time I use the water "raw" is for making up Starsan.

I only use my system about once a month when I brew, so to keep the membranes wet I put a little valve on each of the pipes which keeps it full of water when not in use.

 

[kelper]

You seem well sorted! There's always some confusion between sterile and antiseptic. I read that Maddona ( or was it Maradona?) peed on her feet in the shower because urine is sterile - I think she thought it was a disinfectant. Anyway, I wouldn't lick her toes!

 

[BeerCat]

I have been drinking RO water for years. I would never go back to tap water, its quite foul in comparison.

 

[Druncan]

Interesting, but I'm just curious as to how much waste water do you produce to get the RO water? and do you need a minimum water pressure? we have 330'ish ppm CACO3

 

[chthon]

I'm using mine right now in fact:

I wouldn't recommend using 100% RO water though unless you're adding salts to it (and actually probably not even then).

Looks like I have the same system like you!

 

[chthon]

£41 on ebay, I think the fact my tap water is already quite soft helps :thumba:

I have quite hard tap water, 50 ppm Ca, 250 ppm carbonate, not to mention the rest. I also get 7 ppm at the output.

 

[chthon]

Interesting, but I'm just curious as to how much waste water do you produce to get the RO water? and do you need a minimum water pressure? we have 330'ish ppm CACO3

My system produces 3 l of waste water per l of RO water. But I can dump it in my rain cistern, so it is not wasted.

 

[kelper]

I have been drinking RO water for years. I would never go back to tap water, its quite foul in comparison.

Where are you located? There are some good reasons why drinking RO water is not good for you.

 

[chthon]

I’ve not bought one yet but it’s on the list. Do you aim for a specific water profile when adding your salts?

Not really, between 75 and 100 ppm Ca, and either 1:1 chloride to sulfate ratio for Belgian beers, or 1:2 chloride to sulfate ratio, with 150 ppm sulfate to push bitterness and hoppiness a little bit. I use calciumchloride and gypsum (calciumsulphate).

 

[kelper]

£41 on ebay, I think the fact my tap water is already quite soft helps :thumba:

I emailed Aquati for a spec and they replied quickly. This is for the model you bought and is interesting because it includes sodium and chloride.

Sodium 85 - 94%
Sulfate 96 - 98%
Calcium 94 - 98%
Potassium 85 - 95%
Nitrate 60 - 75%
Iron 94 - 98%
Zinc 95 - 98%
Mercury 95 - 98%
Selenium 94 - 96%
Phosphate 96 - 98%
Lead 95 - 98%
Arsenic 92 - 96%
Magnesium 94 - 98%
Nickel 96 - 98%
Fluoride 85 - 92%
Manganese 94 - 98%
Cadmium 95 - 98%
Barium 95 - 98%
Cyanide 84 - 92%
Chloride 85 - 92%

 

[Spratt]

I'd just suggest that people use RO water as soon as possible or guard against bacteria as it will contain no chlorine. Also, the filters are prone to harbouring bacteria. Perhaps not a problem if used weekly, but could be an issue if stored damp for weeks on end. Any thoughts Steve?

I get my RO water from an aquarium store and for the convenience of it, buy 75 litres at a time (about 14p/litre). It can sometimes be 4 or 5 months before I finish it, as I only use it for pilsners and lagers and then at a maximum of 30%, but I can't say I've ever had any problems with it.

Maybe I'm not looking closely enough at it, but to me it looks exactly the same as the day I buy it and the fact that it's then boiled for an hour means I don't worry too much about it.

David

 

[kelper]

That's good to hear. I guess you buy it in large plastic containers and keep the lids on? So, the risk of contamination is tiny.

 

[Spratt]

That's good to hear. I guess you buy it in large plastic containers and keep the lids on? So, the risk of contamination is tiny.

Yes that's right. They are the 25L "jerry can" type that some brewers use for no chill and they're in a pretty dark corner of a shed, so not a great risk of nasties growing in them

 

[mabrungard]

While that pictured system is nice and compact, the carbon filter is likely not large enough to effectively remove disinfectants from your water (if you're on a municipal system). If you are on a well, you're good to go.

Depending on the water source, all that a RO system NEEDS is a sediment pre-filter and the membrane unit. Adding more stages (aka: filters), won't make better water. Adding a deionizing column is especially useless for brewing use since we do need some mineralization in our brewing water. The beauty of RO use is that we can start with low mineralization and add the salts that you want for that particular brew.

The one ion that brewers must supplement when using predominantly RO water, is zinc. That is an essential yeast nutrient that must be supplied by the water. The RO process does strip that ion to virtually zero. A good yeast nutrient probably has zinc in it.

While the current president seems to confer that America has regressed into a third-world nation, I'm pretty sure that the tap water in the US is as 'pure' as it is in England. RO is not an American construct. It is an enhancement that allows any brewer to brew any style they want to and not be limited to brewing the styles that their water will let them.

 

[kelper]

While the current president seems to confer that America has regressed into a third-world nation, I'm pretty sure that the tap water in the US is as 'pure' as it is in England.

I don't think Trump is responsible for the parlous state of the drinking water infrastructure. But it is a fact that many US citizens are drinking unsafe water. Even the USA's own EPA states that 90% of tapwater is safe - ie 10% is not fit to drink.

See a recent report here https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...cans-exposed-unsafe-drinking-water/564278001/

and another

https://knoema.com/infographics/itkhmkd/drinking-water-quality-in-the-us

The US has some of the best environmental standards in the world, but when utilities can't meet them they can get waivers.

 

[strange-steve]

@mabrungard
I think what was meant by the comment about it being "an American thing" is that using RO for brewing, building a water profile from scratch, seems to be practiced and advocated more by you guys, whereas a usually higher mineral content and treatment with CRS seems more typical over here.

I think that both methods have their pros and cons, but I've seen some brewers being rather dogmatic in their insistence that RO is the wrong approach to water treatment.

 

[Spratt]

@mabrungard
I think what was meant by the comment about it being "an American thing" is that using RO for brewing, building a water profile from scratch, seems to be practiced and advocated more by you guys, whereas a usually higher mineral content and treatment with CRS seems more typical over here.

I think that both methods have their pros and cons, but I've seen some brewers being rather dogmatic in their insistence that RO is the wrong approach to water treatment.

I did the brewery tour at Greene King a couple of years ago and the guide explained that though the water came from a borehole underneath the brewery, every last drop went through a RO process so that the appropriate water profiles could then be built up for Greene King, Morland (Speckled Hen), Ridleys and so on. Unfortunately the guide didn't know when this process started, but I suspect it was when GK started taking over some of the breweries in other parts of the country which would have been using very different water from that at their Suffolk site (e.g. Ruddles from Rutland, Morland from Oxfordshire)

I imagine most of the big national breweries in the UK do the same.

 

[strange-steve]

I did the brewery tour at Greene King a couple of years ago and the guide explained that though the water came from a borehole underneath the brewery, every last drop went through a RO process so that the appropriate water profiles could then be built up for Greene King, Morland (Speckled Hen), Ridleys and so on. Unfortunately the guide didn't know when this process started, but I suspect it was when GK started taking over some of the breweries in other parts of the country which would have been using very different water from that at their Suffolk site (e.g. Ruddles from Rutland, Morland from Oxfordshire)

I imagine most of the big national breweries in the UK do the same.

I suspect you're right, consistency and reproducibility are obviously important to commercial breweries so using RO would remove the water variable.

 

[HopHead420]

Have you nailed all other aspects of your procedure before building your water profile n scratch? It’s a very American and arguably unnecessary approach.

That's one opinion, but considering that water profile has a profound impact on the final beer I can't help but state it's also a naive one.

 

[LeeH]

That's one opinion, but considering that water profile has a profound impact on the final beer I can't help but state it's also a naive one.

Not naive at all. Purely pointing out that water can be adjusted, not just built from the ground up.