rehydrate or starter...

[loady]

Some of you may have read my post 'Think i might be drinking sediment?' I am planning either a 50lt or 25 lt brew for sunday, i have been reading GW book about yeast rehydration and starters and i am not sure what to do, you might know that i am getting plauged with what i 90% sure are esters being produced from fermenting at to higher temps, though some have noted that the yeast (safale04) could be typical of this, i wont know this for sure untill the brews fermented out, i will certainly be fermenting this at 19, well that will be the ambient temp of the fermenting location which will be constant so will eliminate the heat issue.

some things that were mentioned on the thread that i am not sure about, someone said if i brew 50lt then its better to use three packets of yeast, will this not produce another flavour in itself ? someone else said to make a starter or use liquid and another said just rehydrate.

Whats going to give the beer its best chance ? i am stuck with this safale04,(wish i had bought some 05 now ) as far as i am aware it is good and making a starter of it will only go to prove it is viable so maybe just rehydrating it will be just as good.

Reading GW yeast starter instructions, i have no milk bottle or other glass receptacle i can place it in that will fit a bung for an airlock..i do have some good clear grolsh type 1ltr bottles though. if i do make a starter do i still use three packets for the 50lt or just the two or one for a 25l.

 

[iceo]

could you do a 50l run and split it to 2 25l batches and put a starter in one and rehydrate the other and see if it makes a difference

 

[bunkerbrewer]

some things that were mentioned on the thread that i am not sure about, someone said if i brew 50lt then its better to use three packets of yeast, will this not produce another flavour in itself ? someone else said to make a starter or use liquid and another said just rehydrate.

Dried yeast should be rehydrated, don't make a starter. Starters are for liquid yeast :thumb:

Nothing wrong with S-04 IMO, you just need to pitch the right amount. Under-pitching can cause off flavours as well as fermentation temperature. 3 packs sounds about right for 50L, if you want to be sure check out the calculator on MrMalty.com - it'll factor in yeast production date and your OG.

 

[jonnymorris]

Dried yeast should be rehydrated, don't make a starter. Starters are for liquid yeast.

+1.

 

[loady]

could you do a 50l run and split it to 2 25l batches and put a starter in one and rehydrate the other and see if it makes a difference

that is a possibility, being my FV are only 30lt each so i will be splitting the wort.

some things that were mentioned on the thread that i am not sure about, someone said if i brew 50lt then its better to use three packets of yeast, will this not produce another flavour in itself ? someone else said to make a starter or use liquid and another said just rehydrate.

Dried yeast should be rehydrated, don't make a starter. Starters are for liquid yeast :thumb:

Nothing wrong with S-04 IMO, you just need to pitch the right amount. Under-pitching can cause off flavours as well as fermentation temperature. 3 packs sounds about right for 50L, if you want to be sure check out the calculator on MrMalty.com - it'll factor in yeast production date and your OG.

Hmmm... i thought one aspect of the idea of a starter was to make your yeast go further for more brews using only one packet, like 'grow your own' ?..also making a starter of it verifies its viability ?..if it has not benefit to pitching then i dont need to worry about doing it.

 

[joe1002]

Hmmm... i thought one aspect of the idea of a starter was to make your yeast go further for more brews using only one packet, like 'grow your own' ?..also making a starter of it verifies its viability ?..if it has not benefit to pitching then i dont need to worry about doing it.

Yes you can grow your yeast and split it, but only liquid yeast. I'm sure someone will be able to explain why.

I guess you could rehydrate a packet of say S04, brew with it, collect the slurry at the bottom of the fv, wash the yeast an grow it further and split?

 

[bunkerbrewer]

Hmmm... i thought one aspect of the idea of a starter was to make your yeast go further for more brews using only one packet, like 'grow your own' ?..also making a starter of it verifies its viability ?..if it has not benefit to pitching then i dont need to worry about doing it.

One aspect yes, the main reason is that a vial of liquid yeast doesn't have enough viable cells for a "normal" home brew length. Also true about testing viability. But all that only applies to liquid yeast :)

Dried yeast is a different beast (or hopefully, billions of different beasts). I've got a copy of the White & Zainasheff "Yeast" book in front of me:

"Working with dried yeast... skipping rehydration kills about half the cells pitched. Besides only having half as much yeast as is needed, the dead cells immediately begin to break down and affect the flavour of the beer. Why would anyone recommend skipping rehydration?"

And from Jamil's website:

"Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast."

These guys really know their yeast :)

 

[loady]

Hmmm... i thought one aspect of the idea of a starter was to make your yeast go further for more brews using only one packet, like 'grow your own' ?..also making a starter of it verifies its viability ?..if it has not benefit to pitching then i dont need to worry about doing it.

One aspect yes, the main reason is that a vial of liquid yeast doesn't have enough viable cells for a "normal" home brew length. Also true about testing viability. But all that only applies to liquid yeast :)

Dried yeast is a different beast (or hopefully, billions of different beasts). I've got a copy of the White & Zainasheff "Yeast" book in front of me:

"Working with dried yeast... skipping rehydration kills about half the cells pitched. Besides only having half as much yeast as is needed, the dead cells immediately begin to break down and affect the flavour of the beer. Why would anyone recommend skipping rehydration?"

And from Jamil's website: [quote="MrMalty.com":1o3acowf]"Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast."

These guys really know their yeast :)[/quote:1o3acowf]

Most clarifying..thank you for those snippets of info..i will be rehydrating for sure..GW says to rehydrate the yeast (10gm), sprinkle over about 100ml of water (boiled and cooled to about 30 maximum), cover and leave to stand for 15 mins before stirring, stand for another 15 mins then whisk to a cream, then when ready to pitch, mix with same ammount of wort and pitch.

Does that sound right ?..also can i do this say, two hours prior to pitching ?

 

[bunkerbrewer]

Yep, can't argue with Mr W there, and that's pretty much the same guidance Danstar and Safale give :thumb:

 

[jonnymorris]

to about 30 maximum

You should refer to the manufacturer for re-hydrating temps... Danstar Notty is 30-36 or so. It says so on the packet. Others may vary but yes, 30 is a good ball park.

stirring... then whisk...

To much stirring and whisking will risk introducing wild yeast and other unwanted 'infections'. Just sprinkle (preferably in a draft free area and ideally near an open flame), cover, swirl and leave for 15mins.[quote/]also can i do this say, two hours prior to pitching ?[/quote]You can but you want to pitch it at a temp close to the temp of your wort to avoid shocking the yeast.

 

[rpt]

I think the advice is not to delay the pitching of your rehydrated yeast. You shouldn't wait for it to cool to the temperature of the wort, but mix small amounts of the wort into the starter until the temperature has equalised.

 

[cwiseman77]

My brews have improved since I started rehydrating my yeast. I follow Palmer's method http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

Definately nothing wrong with s-04, great wee versatile yeast. s-05 is equally as good but for different beers. I'd like to get into making starters at some point but happy with rehydrating my dried yeast for now