Red wine kit "Flavour"

[Grayhead]

Looking for some advice from the experts on here.

Firstly, I have been into wine making for around 3 years, mainly making Beaverdale 30 bottle whites, which the misses loves better than supermarket £5 bottles (mainly Pinot Grigio and Chardonnay). I have also made around 10 varieties of WOW in demijohns, which have all been quite good.

OK, now onto my request for help. I have made several 6 bottle Beaverdale red's (Merlot, Rojo, Nebbiolo and Du Roi. The latter two I found quite nice, with a little bit more depth, however, they all had a musty smell and flavour when opening the bottles after being left to mature. On bottling, they tasted nice and fruity, but this had gone within a week (maybe a day or two) leaving a "Flavour" not akin to a nice wine.

The strange thing is that on the more recent ones, I left the bottle open for a couple of days, and the flavour and smell improved to an almost splendid wine (still lacking the depth of bought wine).

I then purchased an aerator to see if this improved the smell/flavour out of the bottle. It helped somewhat, but not as much as leaving the screw top loose for 3-5 days.

As these are only demijohn size brews, the 6 bottles disappear fairly quickly, however I left the Du Roi 12 months. The musty smell was stronger, but flavour very good and much improved after 4 days partly open.

Any advice? Has anyone else had something similar? I wonder if I am doing something wrong?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I have never heard of member having to open bottles slightly for a couple of days before drinking so something is definitely wrong, if it tastes good before you bottle and not when you open it again it suggests there is something going wrong at bottling time, if you could tell us what you use to bottle and your method someone may be able to help.

 

[VW911]

Musty flavours and aromas are usually caused by the wine sitting on the dead yeast for too long.
This can be avoided by racking the wine when it reaches about 1.010, or at least as soon as the fermentation has finished.
I'm not convinced that the yeast supplied in some kits is of the best quality - maybe it's worth trying one with a different yeast?

 

[Grayhead]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I normally transfer to second container after around 5 days, when around 1.010, then leave to finish, so don't think it is dead yeast. I then use stabiliser and then degas. I do not normally use any finings, as I leave for a week or two, and it is normally pretty clear.

Bottling. I use Milton for sterilisation and use used wine bottles with screw caps. The wine is racked into bottles then stored in dark storage room, which is pretty cool.

As I said earlier. I have made around 150 bottles of Pinot Grigio and Chardonnay in identical manner without any issues what so ever. Also, the red tastes lovely at bottling time, and again so much better when bottle left slightly open for a couple of days, a couple of weeks after bottling.

 

[Drunkula]

I use Milton for sterilisation

Do you rinse the bottles after? Milton is bleach based so it could be polyphenols.

Have you tried putting the wine in a blender to aerate it?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Not saying you are wrong Drunkula but I have used Milton for 4 years and haven't had any problems and as per instruction never rinse I even topped up 2 DJ's with it once (about half a litre in each) and it didn't taste bad at all and did not harm.

 

[Grayhead]

Bottles are well rinsed before and several times after Milton, as well as caps. It just seems to be the reds that are causing the problem.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Gray you don't need to rinse for wine making the stuff really isn't strong, we have had this debate a few times on the forum and one member even put some in his mouth as he was so confident it wouldn't do any harm, I think for beer it's probably a good belt and braces approach but for wine it isn't needed.

 

[Drunkula]

I even topped up 2 DJ's with it once (about half a litre in each)

I did almost the same thing - I left about an inch of acidified bleach in a demijohn when I did a split batch - the beer was horrible, but so was the one in the other dj. I've had loads of beers with a horrible vinyl off taste recently and it's one of the things I changed. It could possibly be too high a sparge pH but haven't had the chance to check that as a route.

I spray the acidified bleach in my mouth before I suck a syphon - it genuinely trained me to taste chlorine in my tap water. I sort of wish it didn't. I'll get starsan with my next order.

 

[mgrds]

OK several possibilities. When considering these remember we are quite individual in our taste/smell sense and some peoel are very sensitive to one compound others can scarcely detect.

1. You are comparing 30 bottle whites with 6 bottles reds. This means more surface area to volume so any residual cleanser will be present in higher volumes than in a larger batch in a 6 bottle ferment . This could amplify any effect due to bleach bases sterilisers in th final wine
2. In my experience you need to more time for a smaller batch, Doesn't seem to get up as much momentum or mature as quickly. Temperature variations are less buffered as are most other variations. Try a 30 bottle Beaverdale Reds.
3. Beaverdale Reds usually need more maturation time in bottle than the whites.
4. It is easier not to spot residual yeast in reds - give them a bit longer to clear to be sure. It is easy with whites to see any slight haze or that they are standing on sediment.

I think reds also show a more marked improvement in quality if you go up the range a step (say to Atmosphere or Selection) but you do have to mature even longer then.

My procedure with Beaverdale
- sterilise all vessels with dilute bleach (Milton gets dilution right) - rinse with suphite solution
- start fermentation in a brew bin. Ferment approx 5 days then transfer to 5 gall fermentation vessel with lock.
- when secondary fermention finished degass and fine with provided finings etc.
- when completely clear transfer 1 gal demijohns leave for month or two ..
- then bottle if you wish to or keep in Demijohns to transfer to wineboxes for wine on tap !

Mostly I use Beaverdale for my wine on tap - and usually bottle the wines made from higher volume concentrat/juice - but I do bottle some Beaversdale reds. They are usually at their best sometimes between 3 months to one year after making

I am somewhat of a supertaster - and able to discern flavours other miss - so don't worry if you are happy with your wine - but if you are not then try changing some of these things.

PS wine that tastes better after a few days is often over sulphited !
PPS check your corks and your bottle hiegene .
Some wine specific notes ..
Merlot, - the Beaverdale that is ready earlier than all the others (esp if you don't oak it )
Rojo - in my experience needs 3 to 6 months - better after 6 months
Nebbiolo - a great wine but needs a bit longer to mature
Du Roi - can have a bit of musty flavour (to some people palates anyway)
- Beaverdale Pinot Noir is good quick red which is quite quaffable too

Have been making wine for c 45 years! And made a good few Beaverdale 30 gal kits in that time ! But I never make less than 5 gall at a time anymore ! Too much faff!

 

[Grayhead]

Hi mgrds

Some good points and tips in there. You may well be right about over sulphited being the problem, as that makes sense.