Quick starter or pitch on old yeast cake?

[Galena]

My flask is 2 litres so I can only make 1 litre starters. But my thinking was I could split it and save half and make a fresh starter with the other half to use on current brew.

If you can make 1.5 litres with it then yes, you would need 1.5litres water to 150grams DME and then you would use 1 litre and save 0.5 litre
I tried with the yeast starter calculator and it does not seem that it can be done with 1 litre.
However you could make it in a sanitised plastic bottle and shake it well and regularly

 

[Galena]

Worth getting 3 litre flask in my opinion.

 

[Alan_Reginato]

I do consecutives batches and in the day I bottle one, mash the other and throw the wort directly on the cake. Work as well and it's more difficult to contaminate the yeast.
It's just easier, nothing against yeast starter, acid washing and other processes.

 

[Random Badger]

I do consecutives batches and in the day I bottle one, mash the other and throw the wort directly on the cake. Work as well and it's more difficult to contaminate the yeast.
It's just easier, nothing against yeast starter, acid washing and other processes.

Do you put the wort and yeast into a clean fermenter? As opposed to throwing the wort onto the yeast in the one you have just emptied for bottling.

 

[Jim Brewster]

I do consecutives batches and in the day I bottle one, mash the other and throw the wort directly on the cake.

That's exactly what I do too

I pitch straight onto the old trub in the bottom of the FV. I usually bottle while mashing or boiling to pass the time

 

[Braufather]

Worth getting 3 litre flask in my opinion.

It’s a lot of faff though isn’t it. I had gone back to dry yeasts but recently used used wl007 and thought about making it my house yeast type of thing so am looking at it again.

Going the other way buying us05 in bulk works out about a quid a brew and let’s you add the exact amount needed eachtime.
About 70 -80 percent of my brews are us style pales iPas and ambers with the rest being English pale ales IPAs and ambers. 007 covers all that lot so it’s tempting.

 

[Galena]

It’s a lot of faff though isn’t it. I had gone back to dry yeasts but recently used used wl007 and thought about making it my house yeast type of thing so am looking at it again.

Going the other way buying us05 in bulk works out about a quid a brew and let’s you add the exact amount needed eachtime.
About 70 -80 percent of my brews are us style pales iPas and ambers with the rest being English pale ales IPAs and ambers. 007 covers all that lot so it’s tempting.

Well it's only a faff if you don't enjoy doing I guess, personally I quite enjoy the process of keeping your own culture. I have 6 strains of yeat in my yeast fridge, WLP002, WLP005, WLP013, WLP802, Wyeast 1187 and Adnams Dual Strain. I could do with some WLP007 to be honest as I don't have a high attenuating yeast at the moment but may have to drop one of the others if I do that.
I don't use dried yeast but have some US05 as a standby.
But you do have to plan it as it takes 3 days from making the starter to pitching the yeast and longer if you need to build it up for a high gravity wort.

 

[Alan_Reginato]

Do you put the wort and yeast into a clean fermenter? As opposed to throwing the wort onto the yeast in the one you have just emptied for bottling.

In the one that was just emptied.

 

[Random Badger]

In the one that was just emptied.

I take it that means you've had no issues with infection then? Also, you must presumably be allowing the wort to cool to <25C first or it would kill the yeast.

 

[Braufather]

In the one that was just emptied.

That definitely cuts back on the faff!

If it’s a continuous process when does the fermenter get cleaned?

 

[Braufather]

I’m love the two approaches here at opposite extremes!

 

[FirebladeAdam]

I definitely agree with anyone who says harvest the yeast... I must have saved a fortune. I used to wash the yeast (as per David 'thingy' vid on YouTube) but I did find that when it's washed it takes ages to get going in a new ferm and also seems to be much more susceptible to infection. I threw out a jar of hefewiezen yeast and had to buy more! Paying money for yeast seemed very unfair! Now I just get a jar and keep a good dose of trub and make sure it's protected by a bit of the brew in cultured in. Works fine, I have 4 yeasts in the fridge I use for different beers on repeat, some of these yeasts must be on their 8th or 10th time around. I have read this can cause off flavours but nothing yet from these yeasts. Not to my uneducated nose anyhoo.
God luck with your beer!

 

[Alan_Reginato]

That definitely cuts back on the faff!

If it’s a continuous process when does the fermenter get cleaned?

Oh no, I just do the first batch with dry yeast and a second with the cake. Than, clean the fermenter. If there was a third, fourth..., I'll end up with much more beer than I actually could drink.

 

[Alan_Reginato]

I take it that means you've had no issues with infection then? Also, you must presumably be allowing the wort to cool to <25C first or it would kill the yeast.

Yeah, I cool the wort first.
in this way, I minimize the infection possiblity. Also I don't hack to secondary, obviously, and don't dry hopping. I use homemade hop extract, with high proof alcohol at bottling. That's controversial stuff...

 

[Braufather]

I definitely agree with anyone who says harvest the yeast... I must have saved a fortune. I used to wash the yeast (as per David 'thingy' vid on YouTube) but I did find that when it's washed it takes ages to get going in a new ferm and also seems to be much more susceptible to infection. I threw out a jar of hefewiezen yeast and had to buy more! Paying money for yeast seemed very unfair! Now I just get a jar and keep a good dose of trub and make sure it's protected by a bit of the brew in cultured in. Works fine, I have 4 yeasts in the fridge I use for different beers on repeat, some of these yeasts must be on their 8th or 10th time around. I have read this can cause off flavours but nothing yet from these yeasts. Not to my uneducated nose anyhoo.
God luck with your beer!

Seems like a middle approach and means you don’t overpitch I guess. How much of yeast cake do you pitch?

 

[Alastair70]

Oh no, I just do the first batch with dry yeast and a second with the cake. Than, clean the fermenter. If there was a third, fourth..., I'll end up with much more beer than I actually could drink.

I’m thinking this would be a good approach for lagers. I leave them in primary because I’m lazy and worry about infection or oxygenation. Given the 2 month turn around in between, I’m sure I’ll be able to keep up.

 

[Moe]

I have top cropped and harvested Kveik a few times. I have still got some in the fridge. I think I’ve had 6 brews out of a £7 pouch of Hornindial so far.

I just pitch a teaspoon in each brew and then harvest more 40hours later.
I used some last month that had been in the fridge for 4 months and it fermented with no problem.

I was under the impression that this was only possible because of the “Kveik superpowers”.

I re used this Notty the next day after bottling and so for it seems to have gone well, but I’m really happy to read that people do this with conventional yeast and get away with storing it for a couple of weeks between brews.

I like the idea of being able to re use yeast. Saves a couple of pound per brew which is nice, but I’m more interested in the quick start and high cell count. I can’t see myself building starters and doing all that faff, kudos to those that do but that’s for too much effort for me.

 

[FirebladeAdam]

Seems like a middle approach and means you don’t overpitch I guess. How much of yeast cake do you pitch?

The whole jar full. Maybe it's about 300ml? Or a little more? I feel like it doesn't have to be an exact amount. I leave the beer dregs in there too. I just rinse the jar out with the wort I'm putting into the ferm. Jar then gets washed and as the batch finishes around we go again

 

[FirebladeAdam]

Moe, 'conventional' yeast can survive like this for months!

 

[Galena]

The wonderfully flocculent WLP002 built up from a jar that has been stored since last August.