questions from a newbie

[Benj111]

Hi all, I'm in the process of reading up about AG brewing, I just have a couple of questions.

1. Mashing temperature.
A low temp would tend to produce more fermentable sugars, and a high temperature would produce less, and result in more body.
I presume that lagers are mashed at a lower temp, whereas an Abbey ale would be brewed at a higher temp (presumably the sugar that seems to be added is to get the alcohol up?).
Also how far does this process go, could you select between 100% fermentable to 100% unfermentable sugars? Or is it more 10% each way?

2) Hops
the 60 minute hop addition is basically for bittering so I should only really care about the alpha acids? The 5 minute hop addition is about aroma? Does this also apply to dry hopping or is there a difference between the 2 ?
Also the 20 minute hop addition sounds to me like a no mans land between the 60 min and 5 min additions getting neither the aroma or the bitterness, or does it actually contribute something distinct?

3. Boiling
The consensus seems to be to boil vigorously lid off for 60 minutes to get rid of DMS. I'm kind of dubious though 60 minutes is a long time, people seem to be boiling off litres of liquid and DMS is supposedly volatile, that being the case assuming a similar volatility as hop aromas, it would be boiled off in 5 minutes, and I'm not convinced the lid would help contain it either. So is this something everyone blindly does. Or has everyone tried boiling with a lid on and ended up with vinegar?

I think ill leave this essay there for now :) tune in for next weeks exciting episode.

 

[Custodian]

Mash Temps,- THREE GROUPS. 146- 148, for mild ale, at Ph 4.8 -5.0
149- 151, for bitter beer Ph 5.1 - 5.3
152- 154 for pale ales Ph 5.4 - 5.6
The lower the Ph, the higher the acidity,this favours more fermentables .The lower the mash temp,the more fermentables, but the beer will be dryer,and the mash will take longer.
Cheers.

 

[Custodian]

Hop boil , usually 90 mins, but most done in 60 mins, just add 10% extra hop.
Flavour is in the middle bit boil 15 to 20 mins,
Aroma boil ,- I do mine when i know that there is only 3 days left to go of it being in the FV.
I dont leave it lying on the hops for more than 3 days max, no need ,avoid grassiness .
The process is 20 - 50 gms of pelleted hops boiled for 10 mins in a pint of water. Then,into the FV for the 3 days.
Each boiling process with deliver an extraction of bitterness, but the last one or dry hop, is more for aroma.
Cheers.

 

[Benj111]

Thanks custodian for your replies.

Struggling to parse this "Aroma boil ,- I do mine when i know that there is only 3 days left to go of it being in the FV". I didn't think you left boiled hops in the FV, only dry hops, or is that what you were referring to???


Also the 20 minute 'flavour' boil what does that actually deliver that the 60(90) minute and 5 minute (dry hop) don't. In other words. Wont X grams of hops at 60 mins and Y grams of hops at 5 minutes(dry hop) = Z grams of 20 'flavour' hops, and visa versa.

Thanks

 

[Drunkula]

DMS is pretty much a boogeyman nowadays and unless you've got some particular lager malts you can leave the lid on.

Mash temp - yeah, it's worth seeing if Brulosophy have done things that might interest you
http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/12/the-mash-high-vs-low-temperature-exbeeriment-results/

Hopping usually gets broken down into bitterness, flavour and aroma, but of course all additions will add some bitterness as long as the wort is still hot, say above 80c.

I'm reading Mastering Homebrew and Randy Mosher thinks hugely crazy staggered hop additions are nonsense and thinks you can do the same thing with 3 additions. I'm inclined to agree that most of us on here couldn't tell a difference with our thread veined purple snouts. I'd try and find a either a neutral, cheap hop for bittering, or something cheap that matches the style. Magnum, Admiral, Columbus.

The tradition of the 60/90 minute boil seems to be under a challenge, just like secondary fermentation, lagers needing lager temperatures and that you shouldn't let a woman touch your mash paddle. Not that a woman has ever tried to touch my mash paddle... sigh....

 

[Sandimas]

The tradition of the 60/90 minute boil seems to be under a challenge

I just did my first 20min boil, was pushed for time and wanted to get a brew on before I went on holiday so upped the quantity of hops to give the same IBU as the recipe for a 60min boil, it was a Mild anyway so not particularly bitter. I've just arrived back and it's ready to be bottled so I'll let you know how it turns out - an interesting experiment.

 

[Custodian]

Thanks custodian for your replies.

Struggling to parse this "Aroma boil ,- I do mine when i know that there is only 3 days left to go of it being in the FV". I didn't think you left boiled hops in the FV, only dry hops, or is that what you were referring to???


Also the 20 minute 'flavour' boil what does that actually deliver that the 60(90) minute and 5 minute (dry hop) don't. In other words. Wont X grams of hops at 60 mins and Y grams of hops at 5 minutes(dry hop) = Z grams of 20 'flavour' hops, and visa versa.

Thanks

On the Aroma side of things, I have read in articles from people who know, that very little bitterness comes from a 5/10 min boil, its done for aroma only, any more than this and the aroma is lost. You will get bitterness from the 20 min flavour boil, just how much will depend upon the AAU value of the hop, but not as an extensive as amount, as from the main boil. In the main boil, apart from the main bitterness, you will get a certain amount of flavour carried over,but not enough if you are looking for flavour. Go to BeerSmith Home brewing Log, BeerSmith also has software that will show you how to estimate bitterness additions. Best Hop Techniques, good passages here with more leads at the bottom of the page. And re my addition at day 5 ( most of the ferment is done by then) for the three days max, my 'dry hop' is kickstarted with a ten min boil, I leave it all in to the finish as trub of the pellets,it does not block up the tap of the FV, like whole hops would, and I dont want to use a hop carrier in my FV the way that others do for dry hopping with whole hops. Hope this answers your questions. Cheers.

 

[Benj111]

@Drunkula Thanks for the brulosophy link, exactly the type of thing I've been looking for.
re 'crazy' hop additions, that's kind of why I'm asking I look at recipes with 10 different hop additions and not convinced you could taste it.
I'd make a comment about man handling your Mash Paddle, but we've only just met. :-P I now understand why you need to check the mashtemperature so carefully though.

@darrellm I'd certainly be interested to know how it turns out. Thinking aloud, I wonder what would constitute a 'boil' for the purposes of hop bittering, perhaps overlap with mashing to some extent.

@Custodian Thanks, I'll have a look into beersmith. I think some of my confusion is stemming from kind of assuming the 'flavour' is just a combination of 'aroma' and 'bitter' so you wouldn't get anything new from the 20 minute boil.

Think I'm going to have get some brews under my belt, maybe experiment.

 

[Zephyr259]

There's an episode of the Basic Brewing Radio podcast where they make 3 beers each with a single hop addition at ether 60, 30 or 0 min. The 30 min one is the interesting one as it's got both some bitterness and some aroma/flavour but also has something undefinable that improves the other samples when they do some blending. A lot of my beers have a 15 min addition which with my 15 min whirlpool/rest at the end is kinda like a 30 min addition. Never done any tests but my hop presence is good for they styles I brew.