Pre-Made or Home-Made Wort?

[Grunaki]

Hi,

I'm new to brewing, so I figured I'd get some opinions.. Also don't know if this is an option in the UK as I'm in Canada.

I've started a couple of batches (Redwood Ale and Mexican Cerveza) from pre-made wort kits made by this company called Barons.

I haven't had a chance to sample it yet (Well, actually I got a mouthful of the Redwood as I was siphoning it over to the carboy, and it tasted pretty good at the time!), but it's really easy to make.. You just mix bentonite in hot water in the bottom of the brewing bucket, then pour in the wort (it comes in a plastic bag) then fill the bag up with warm water to wash out any residue and dump that into the mix, then top it up with warm water to the 23 litre mark. If the mix is between 18 and 23 degrees celsius, throw in the yeast and hop pellets (if it's a hoppy beer) and put the top on the bucket and forget about it for a few days. When the gravity is within tolerance of the chart they give you, you siphon it over to the carboy to settle out for about 2 weeks, then siphon it into bottles and leave it for a month before drinking.
(They say you can drink if after two weeks in the bottles, but they recommend leaving it a month.)

Anyway.. It's not ready to drink for a long while yet, but it's looking pretty good - clarifying well.

What I was wondering is if you find that you get superior results from making the wort yourself from one of the 'can kits' or if these pre-made worts are the way to go.. The lady at the store where I got the kits from was saying that she will only use the pre-made stuff now.. She makes wine for herself, but she does beer for her husband, and she said that she found it to be too much messing about making the wort out of a can. (The store carries both types of kit.)

I was thinking of having a go with a can kit sometime if I'm feeling brave.. I was looking at the ones they had in the store and there's some interesting varieties that they don't have in the pre-made stuff. (There are only about 12 different kits in the pre-made). I've heard that you need to buy malt extract separately for the can kits though - is that usually true or is it generally included?

 

[matchles1]

hi, give it a go and decide yourself, rememeber homebrew shops are there to make money, a kit maybe £15 and the barrons kit is £25 +. try several products and decide what you think is best, watch videos on youtube and watch what is being said on this forum. Kits are easy have a go.

 

[boozy_shoes]

We don't seem to have that "bagged" sort of kit over here, well I haven't seen any. All our kits tend to be one or two can kits. The one can kits you need to add dry malt extract, beer enhancer or as a last resort sugar to the fermenter to make up the rest of the fermentables as you make the kit up then dilute with water. It's not a massive headache but dry malt extract can be a pain when it clumps together (as it wants to do as soon as it goes near anything vaguely wet)

The bagged ones you mention seem closest to our two can kits where it's a case of emptying the two cans along with hot water into your fermenter, rinsing the tins out with hot water, stirring and then topping up with water and adding yeast when at the right temperature. They don't come with hop pellets though just the 2 cans and the yeast. Lots of people modify these though so will add extra hops or treacle for stouts to get a bit of variation.

Yes, you can buy Malt Extract seperately from the kits both in liquid and dry form and in different colours (light - dark) depending on what sort of beer you are making. You can also steep other darker grains and malts to extract their flavours before straining and boiling it with hops, cooling and adding yeast. This is known as extract brewing but i'm unable to help you with it anymore than that as i've never done extract brewing and went straight to all grain, someone will probably be along to help you more though.

 

[rpt]

Your pre-made kit sounds just like a two-can beer kit here. Some of these do include hops which are used for dry hopping.

I think you are asking how these compare to extract brewing. This is more effort and equipment but, in my experience, the results are much better than the kits. You have to boil the wort for an hour and add hops, whereas the kits have already done this step for you. You can make almost any recipe you want and it feels like you are making the beer instead of just using someone else's "ready meal". It's also a good stepping stone to all grain brewing.

 

[calumscott]

We do you know! :hmm: Or maybe we did...

I know my LHBS had the dilute from 7l to 23l ones but I think they had a trial of the full length ones too but google isn't showing much at the moment.

To the OP then:

The less processing a wort has the better IMO. So if a wort is produced and sold to you at it's original length and gravity then that has to better than one that's produced then heat and vacuum treated to produce the syrup that you subsequently reconstitute.

Ideal - produce your own wort from grain
Next best - buy your wort unconcentrated.
Next best - buy two can kits that don't need extra sugar
Next best - buy one can kits and use malt extract
Next best - buy one can kits and use Beer Kit Enhancer.
Next best - buy one can kits and use Dextrose.
Next best - buy one can kits and use Sucrose.
Worst - buy supermarket beer

 

[alanywiseman.]

The two can kits are different from the baron kits.

I have done to of the baron kits and the taste of the wort and young uncarbonated beer is far superior to that of the canned kits. The Baron kit is concentrate wort that is made from grains hops and water. this give the wort a fuller flavour where you can taste the hops and not just bitterness. Personally I have thrown out the supplied hops and replaced with fresh cones of the same veriaty as the sullpied ones are a bit cheesy smelling.

The one and two can kits are malt extract that is hopped with hop extract. From my knowledge there is no mashing or boiling (appart to concentrate the extract). Unsurpriingly this leads to inferior product. There are some good ones like Woodfores and Coopers and these kits imporve greatly from dryhopping, hop teas and steeping grains but this also adds to the price. The can kits really need the additon of the hop armoa as this is lacking to to the way thay are made.

If I were you I would give a Woodfores or St Peters kit a go. have a look in the kit review section (there is also my reviews of the Baron Pale Ale and Canadian Golden Ale which are both on going at the moment)

 

[calumscott]

The one and two can kits are malt extract that is hopped with hop extract. From my knowledge there is no mashing or boiling (appart to concentrate the extract). Unsurpriingly this leads to inferior product. There are some good ones like Woodfores and Coopers and these kits imporve greatly from dryhopping, hop teas and steeping grains but this also adds to the price. The can kits really need the additon of the hop armoa as this is lacking to to the way thay are made.

While probably true of some kits, Muntons expressly state that their kits (well, certainly the Midas Touch and Black Pearl that I've had my hands on) are mashed, boiled and chilled to produce hot and cold break before being settled then condensed.

I would imagine all the decent ones go through this process.

I absolutely agree about the additions though. Essential for most kits IMO.

 

[Grunaki]

hi, give it a go and decide yourself, rememeber homebrew shops are there to make money, a kit maybe £15 and the barrons kit is £25 +. try several products and decide what you think is best, watch videos on youtube and watch what is being said on this forum. Kits are easy have a go.

It's not that much of a difference in price.. They have Black Rock and Coopers' canned kits in there as well, and they're only $4-5 cheaper on average than the Barons kits.. I have the flyer for the Black Rock ones and they say you can either make their kits with sugar or malt extract (which they offer as a separate can, though I guess any old malt extract would do really). The store gives you a package of dextrose with every beer kit purchase, so that's not so bad.

I have found a store that has canned kits significantly cheaper than this place though, so I'm thinking I might go there and pick up a couple.

(Bolton, BTW.. I'm from Preston originally.. :) )

 

[wilsoa1111]

i suppose its the old u get what u pay for with kits- unless u add time in and do an extract kit -or lots of time and go AG

i am trying out a happy middle ground atm with a mate:

3 brews, dif yeast in each, all from cooking, dried extract or a cheap 1 can kit, quick half time boils max BUT all topped up with a full 20l odd BIAB full of spec malts- and some oats (not fussed about chill haze)- mashed high for body(lacking imho in the half sugar recipes), then dry hopped

im hoping this keeps the costs down and as the 50l bottled volume was made in 5hrs on day one including cleanup ,

hopefully should prove to be about as time efficent as an kit/extract brew with all the goodness of a well done AG brew

 

[rpt]

The two can kits are different from the baron kits.

I have done to of the baron kits and the taste of the wort and young uncarbonated beer is far superior to that of the canned kits. The Baron kit is concentrate wort that is made from grains hops and water. this give the wort a fuller flavour where you can taste the hops and not just bitterness.

I still don't understand how that is different from the two can kits. What am I missing? :wha:

 

[alanywiseman.]

While probably true of some kits, Muntons expressly state that their kits (well, certainly the Midas Touch and Black Pearl that I've had my hands on) are mashed, boiled and chilled to produce hot and cold break before being settled then condensed.

I would imagine all the decent ones go through this process.

That is good to know and thanks for correcting me :thumb:

The two can kits are different from the baron kits.

I have done to of the baron kits and the taste of the wort and young uncarbonated beer is far superior to that of the canned kits. The Baron kit is concentrate wort that is made from grains hops and water. this give the wort a fuller flavour where you can taste the hops and not just bitterness.

I still don't understand how that is different from the two can kits. What am I missing? :wha:

Dont quite understand what the question is. Are you asking how concentrated wort is different from malt extract and hope extract? Baron kits have been through a full mash and boil while 2/1 can kits are malt extract with added hop extracts for the bitterness and flavour. (what follows is assumption based on experience) With almost all can kits there is a lack of hop flavour and aroma. I would put this down to the canning process when the prepared wort is heated under vacuum to concentrate the wort so there is suficent amounts of sugars present in the samll 1.5/3kg kits. by doing this the volitily flavour and aroma oil from the hops are lost meaning that the resulting beer is slightly unbalance, IMO, and needs the hop additions to lift the flavour and aroma.

I do not know how the Baron kits are concentrated but assuming that they go through the same concentrateing process the wort will be heated and under vacuum for a lot less time as you are suppling a great amount of concentrated wort. The result is that not only the hop oil are more promenet but also there appears to be a more complex malt profile.

Like I said at the start i dont quite understnad your question but hope that is goes some way to answering it :thumb:

 

[rpt]

While probably true of some kits, Muntons expressly state that their kits (well, certainly the Midas Touch and Black Pearl that I've had my hands on) are mashed, boiled and chilled to produce hot and cold break before being settled then condensed.

I would imagine all the decent ones go through this process.

Baron kits have been through a full mash and boil while 2/1 can kits are malt extract with added hop extracts for the bitterness and flavour.

I'd always thought that the beer kits had gone through a boil - which is what calumscott has been told about the Muntons kits. But I can imagine that that may be the difference between the good and the not so good kits.

 

[alanywiseman.]

I'd always thought that the beer kits had gone through a boil - which is what calumscott has been told about the Muntons kits. But I can imagine that that may be the difference between the good and the not so good kits.

Like I said I am no expert and the information that I have given is what I have got from here and many other places. However I find that the better the wort tastes then the better the beer tasted (provided temps are all ok etc). Just my opinion but what I have got from the Baron kits has been afar superioer to the toucan kits I have tried (not done any of the ones mentioned by calum mind).

 

[Grunaki]

I'd always thought that the beer kits had gone through a boil - which is what calumscott has been told about the Muntons kits. But I can imagine that that may be the difference between the good and the not so good kits.

Like I said I am no expert and the information that I have given is what I have got from here and many other places. However I find that the better the wort tastes then the better the beer tasted (provided temps are all ok etc). Just my opinion but what I have got from the Baron kits has been afar superioer to the toucan kits I have tried (not done any of the ones mentioned by calum mind).

I got an info sheet from Barons with my brewing kit.. I've scanned it, put it in a PDF and uploaded it to transferbigfiles, but I'm only using the free option so it'll only be downloadable for 5 days..

And apparently I can't post URLS or references to other websites until I've been here a bit longer, so I've broken it down a bit..


tbf [dot] me [slash] a [slash] BXKP30