Percentage fermentability

[Custodian]

Hello to everyone who likes to dot the i's and cross the 't's when it comes to recipe building.
I am just looking into dry spray, diastatic or otherwise, malt ex', and have read some time ago, that it is 75% fermentable. I cannot find the thread again for this, so I cant say if it was for Muntons or Youngs or all in general. Now the main question here is,- What about the hopped spray malt ex powder? What percentage fermentability? Will it be the same as in the unhopped style or is the malt so produced to have similar fermentability characteristics to the kit style malt ex'?
Does anyone know for definate? I have tried asking one supplier,without reply.
I thought to ask this forum before I have to write to the manufacturers.
Thanking you in anticipation of a knowledgeable reply.
Custodian.

 

[Slid]

Hello to everyone who likes to dot the i's and cross the 't's when it comes to recipe building.
I am just looking into dry spray, diastatic or otherwise, malt ex', and have read some time ago, that it is 75% fermentable. I cannot find the thread again for this, so I cant say if it was for Muntons or Youngs or all in general. Now the main question here is,- What about the hopped spray malt ex powder? What percentage fermentability? Will it be the same as in the unhopped style or is the malt so produced to have similar fermentability characteristics to the kit style malt ex'?
Does anyone know for definate? I have tried asking one supplier,without reply.
I thought to ask this forum before I have to write to the manufacturers.
Thanking you in anticipation of a knowledgeable reply.
Custodian.

There is no simple answer to the question of fermentability of malt extract, although a "hopped" DME will be the same as an unhopped.

Different yeast strains are able to ferment out different proportions of the sugars that might find their way into your unfermented wort.. 75% is a good "rule of thumb" or "finger in the air" sort of a guideline to estimate your final gravity, based on the initial gravity.

This is based on a typical strength, average kind of a recipe and a general sort of English type beer yeast - Nottingham, Gervin (said to be the same as Nottingham), Safale 04 etc etc.

For a great guide to understanding the brewing process, I would heartily recommend reading John Palmer's free to view masterpiece "How to Brew".

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1

The above link takes you to the extract brewing section.

To emphasise again - hopped DME has a bit of bittering stuff in it, no more, so little as to make no difference to fermentability.

To convert equivalent weights of DME and commercial LME you could reliably use the 5:6 ratio - 5g dried is the same as 6g liquid.

 

[Custodian]

Hello Slid,
Thanks for your reply, so far you are the only one. The answer you have given ,- "the same fermentability as the unhopped" is the first part of my quest. I have just discovered that on the 500gm Muntons label it states the EBU as between 30 - 42. There was nothing on the Young's hopped label re anything.What should I assume there?
Can you see where I am going with this? 1k of it would be enough for an IPA,do you think? with unhopped mex for the rest, with 500gm dextrose or sucrose to thin it all down to a one fifth gravity.
Incidentally, I have been both kit and all grain brewing for 25 years, I dealt in AAU's for the hops, but had a 25 year lay off as well.
Now I am retired, I am taking it up again, however, I have not considered hopped malt ex before,just trying to make the whole process easier, with the only boil being the 15min addition with perhaps a dry hopping stage. Do you get the picture? Incidentally, Palmer says that there is no hopped dry malt, so ?? Also, none of his recipes dealt with a hopped extract. Also, and to the uninitiated, all his 5 gal recipes are for 48 12oz bottles, - this means Yankie gallons @ 3.7854 ect. which we dont follow anyway. Apart from that I already know the rest. Would like to hear from you re' the 30 -40 Bitterings though. Cheers, Custodian.

 

[Slid]

Welcome back to the fold!

Any hop presence in DME is going to be for bitterings only - similar to a kit.

I only used 500g of hopped DME once and I thought it might make a difference, but if it did, it was not memorably so.

TBH I don't think the concentration process of wort to a liquid extract does hops much good and then boiling it down to DME does it even less of a favour.

Sorry to sound negative, but in my experience, if you have the time to do AG, then that is the way to go. Extract can be used to stretch the volume out, as in a partial mash, without detracting too much from the end product.

In short, I regard hopped DME as "gimmick" product.

 

[Custodian]

Thanks for that Slid. I am going to give it a chance to see what the bittering units give. The variance of between 30 to 42 is quite interesting.I may go to part mash, but as the main bitterings are separate from the 15 min characters and aroma dry hopping, then iso may have a place!!??
Gimmick or no, something must be given. The main gimmick in home brewing I think is the kit as it has to be so concentrated with nearly 60% of it unfermentable,in order to accommodate the sugar necessary to bring down the the gravity to an acceptable FG. The actual fermentable part of the kit only gives circa 1.5%vv.with the rest coming from the sugar for the 5 gall enterprise. Like the man said, " how can you expect to make good beer by this method? If it was possible then all the commercial brewers would be doing it. !! Cheers, Nick.