PECO Boiler BIAB + Scorched Element

[curtiskenny]

Hi Everyone,

First post but have been lurking for a while.

About 6 months ago I bought the PECO 33L boiler to move onto grain brewing using the BIAB method with a hop spider. So far I've made 3 beers:

• The first beer turned out great (beginners luck?)
• The second I managed to scorch the element. I continued to brew and bottle it, but wasn't very drinkable.
• The third I vigorously stirred during ramp-up to boil and came out perfect

Today I did my 4th beer, however despite stirring I managed to scorch the element again. I have tasted the wort and have decided it's not worth fermenting and dumped it due to the taste.

I stirred the wort enough during ramp-up, but perhaps I didn't do it enough? Also this time round I ditched the hop spider and threw hop pellets directly into the boiler after I reached the boil - could this've caused some scorching?

Does anyone have any advice on how to prevent this? I was thinking about going again tomorrow with more vigorous stirring and re-introducing the hop spider.

It's also worth mentioning that I've been getting my grain from The Malt Miller as a fine crush as per their advice for BIAB brewing. Should I be going for the standard crush rather than fine?

TIA, Curtis

 

[cushyno]

Hi Curtis, my first post in months. I've been where you're at with the Peco.

Find a way to regulate input voltage to the element or keep the wort moving as you bring it up to boiling. Preferably both!

See this post and the related post I linked to: Beer tastes like ashtray?

 

[curtiskenny]

Hi Curtis, my first post in months. I've been where you're at with the Peco.

Find a way to regulate input voltage to the element or keep the wort moving as you bring it up to boiling. Preferably both!

See this post and the related post I linked to: Beer tastes like ashtray?

Hi cushyno,

I've not done the Vorlauf technique before - after mash should I try not to disturb the grains at all, and try to filter using Vorlauf until clear(er)? A lot of people also seem to say that Vorlauf is not required for BIAB?

For regulating the input voltage - is there something you would recommend? Does it have a detrimental effect on the time it gets to boil? I feel like it already takes a long time!

Curtis

 

[cushyno]

This may not be what you want to hear after 4 brews, but it has to be said that BIAB is a way of cutting corners. Single vessel, less time, less hassle, goes the theory...
Inevitably it's a compromise. You will learn where cutting corners works for you and where it doesn't. Just look at some of the brewers on here doing what is ostensibly BIAB, yet many have introduced recirculation, step mashing, vorlaufing, etc., to work around the inherent shortcomings of BIAB or a single vessel system.

You've essentially got a choice with BIAB - higher efficiency through greater sugar extraction that comes with finer crush but you have to be very careful to boil slow and avoid scorching, or lower efficiency with coarser crush so you can get the job done quicker with less finesse and less hassle.

I mash in a coolbox to avoid needing to reheat the mash, use the Peco as a boiler and assembled my own voltage regulator to reduce power to the element while stirring and bringing to the boil. It saves me the hassle of lautering and vorlaufing to get clear wort, which avoids scorching.

 

[soupdragon]

Did you brew them all with the same brand of malt? If so, all from the same bag?
Some time ago I had a few brews that left a burnt on deposit above my hidden elements (all in one machine). Was using muntons propino at the time. Changed to crisp malt and the problem went away. Was buying ready crushed so maybe the issue was too much dust settling over the elements. No amount of stirring will stop that, possibly even force more fine particles through your bag to the bottom of the boiler.

Cheers Tom

 

[aamcle]

I f you look around on the forum you will find instructions for power controlers.

Incidentally biab is essential the same process as a GrainFather of its clones. Mash then remove grain from wort rather than 3v style remove/flush wort from grain.

the "best way" to solve your problem is to use a low density heating element but most kit doesn't have them.

 

[curtiskenny]

Thanks everyone,

I mash in a coolbox to avoid needing to reheat the mash, use the Peco as a boiler and assembled my own voltage regulator to reduce power to the element while stirring and bringing to the boil. It saves me the hassle of lautering and vorlaufing to get clear wort, which avoids scorching.

Are you using the coolbox just as a means to keep the mash insulated? Do you still use a bag in the box, or do you use a bazooka/similar when draining into the PECO?

Did you brew them all with the same brand of malt? If so, all from the same bag?
Some time ago I had a few brews that left a burnt on deposit above my hidden elements (all in one machine). Was using muntons propino at the time. Changed to crisp malt and the problem went away. Was buying ready crushed so maybe the issue was too much dust settling over the elements. No amount of stirring will stop that, possibly even force more fine particles through your bag to the bottom of the boiler.

Cheers Tom

I have been buying malt by the recipe. The first time this occurred I was brewing this recipe - Dennis Kings Galaxy Delight | The Malt Miller the brew I did yesterday was with 4.5KG of pilsner malt.

I use this bag Ritchies Mashing and Sparging Bag for grain brews. Fits 32ltr Electrim mash bin. | eBay which isn't very fine on the bottom - perhaps a better bag/vorlaufing would help? Does anyone have any suggestions?

I f you look around on the forum you will find instructions for power controlers.

Incidentally biab is essential the same process as a GrainFather of its clones. Mash then remove grain from wort rather than 3v style remove/flush wort from grain.

the "best way" to solve your problem is to use a low density heating element but most kit doesn't have them.

I think I will definitely look into a power regulator, I spotted these on eBay UK`AC 220V 4000W Variable Voltage Regulator Speed Motor Fan Control Controller | eBay but haven't seen many reviews on them. It definitely needs looking at properly as the plug is unfused for a start but isn't bad for £18.

Curtis

 

[soupdragon]

I use this bag Ritchies Mashing and Sparging Bag for grain brews. Fits 32ltr Electrim mash bin. | eBay which isn't very fine on the bottom - perhaps a better bag/vorlaufing would help? Does anyone have any suggestions?

When I used a 33 litre stock pot on the stove, I made a bag from voile (plain net curtain material). Was as cheap as chips and fine enough to stop the malt dust escaping. Might be worth trying before getting a voltage regulator? Might save you a good few quid.
My elements are fused under the base of the boiler and aren't low density and apart from the early issue with the muntons malt (probably too fine a crush), have not had a problem with burnt on deposits since

Cheers Tom

 

[cushyno]

No amount of stirring will stop that, possibly even force more fine particles through your bag

Of course. When I mentioned stirring I was considering my method after lifting and draining the bag. I suggest that if you don't have wort recirculation don't try to maintain mash temperature using the element, rather wrap the Peco in blankets to maintain temperature. After lifting and draining bag then you may stir as much as needed while bringing to boil.

the "best way" to solve your problem is to use a low density heating element

Which is effectively what a voltage controller does too - it lowers the wattage delivered per length of element.

Do you still use a bag in the box

Yup. I heat strike water in the Peco, then mash in a bag in a coolbox while heating sparge water in Peco. After mashing, lift bag from coolbox over a spare bucket or FV, tip rest of wort from coolbox to bucket, give bag a light squeeze. Return bag with mash back into coolbox for batch sparge. Start heating "first runnings" in Peco. After sparge, lift and drain bag, squeezing a plenty. Then jug the "second runnings" into the Peco to boil.

Used that process for about 50 brews so far.

 

[cushyno]

This 2x pack of bags is all I've ever used
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079Q2LQND
So 100 micron seems about right.

 

[curtiskenny]

This 2x pack of bags is all I've ever used
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079Q2LQND
So 100 micron seems about right.

Thanks,

I think I will look at getting another bag with a finer mesh. The Ritchies bag I have does have large-ish holes on the bottom so certainly won't be helping.

I originally got that bag because it would not touch the element but I've quickly learnt that the element should not be turned on during the mash, and have been insulating the PECO instead. This works really well and have not observed much temperature loss except for about 2 degrees Celsius for an hour mash.

I will also try to order all the parts for the DIY voltage regulator mentioned here.

Curtis

 

[curtiskenny]

I went again brewing over the weekend and did Dennis King's Centennial Delight (DK's Centennial Delight | The Malt Miller) - it was the Galaxy Delight that I originally burnt on my second brew.

I'm happy to report with a new bag and ample stirring that brew day was a success! It's bubbling away on day 2 - approx 70% complete at 1.025 according to Brewfather. I just tasted some out of the sample jar and I think it's going to be an amazing brew!

Curtis

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I went again brewing over the weekend and did Dennis King's Centennial Delight (DK's Centennial Delight | The Malt Miller) - it was the Galaxy Delight that I originally burnt on my second brew.

I'm happy to report with a new bag and ample stirring that brew day was a success! It's bubbling away on day 2 - approx 70% complete at 1.025 according to Brewfather. I just tasted some out of the sample jar and I think it's going to be an amazing brew!

Curtis

Well done mate - that must have restored your faith a bit