Overbuilding a yeast starter

[private4587]

I am going away in 2 weeks time approx for two weeks, upon my return i want to promptly set off an AG brew (TT landlord) using Wyeyeast 1469. I have being told that this is the yeast that TT use and want to make it last by over building it if that is the correct term. I have read various threads on this subject but they seem very technical to me. Is it possible to have the yeast ready to enable me to start this brew in the time frame mentioned. I am hoping that some kind person can put down some layman terms method for carrying out the steps needed to carry this out. I hope i have explained myself properly. Thanking you in advance
Peter

 

[Martybhoy]

Do you mean you want to have more yeast than you'll need in your brew? So you can make another brew with the same strain?

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[MyQul]

Here ya go

http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/

 

[private4587]

Do you mean you want to have more yeast than you'll need in your brew? So you can make another brew with the same strain?

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Yes I have heard that this a good strain to use as house yeast.

 

[private4587]

Hi MyQul thanks for the link, my questions on this method are hopefully not stupid ones. I don't have a stir plate so will be shaking the starter. Let me see if i have this right.
1. I want a 1lt starter with a 100billion cell overbuild.
2 So i make up a 1 1/2 lt starter using LME and water (how much LME)?
3. Shake min 4 times a day for how long? not sure of when the starter ready.
4. pour off a 1/2 lt of slurry into sterilised jar and fit with loose lid and place in fridge for next brew.( how long can keep it and when would i need to secure lid)
5. Decant remaining starter and pitch into brew.
I realise the amounts need to be verified from spreadsheet but does this method seem about correct.
Again sorry if it all seems a bit stupid but first time at trying this method of using a liquid yeast

 

[Martybhoy]

I read the link from MyQul and now see what you were meaning. I like the idea of it very much, as opposed to harvesting yeast from trub.





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[Spapro]

Hi MyQul thanks for the link, my questions on this method are hopefully not stupid ones. I don't have a stir plate so will be shaking the starter. Let me see if i have this right.
1. I want a 1lt starter with a 100billion cell overbuild.
2 So i make up a 1 1/2 lt starter using LME and water (how much LME)?
3. Shake min 4 times a day for how long? not sure of when the starter ready.
4. pour off a 1/2 lt of slurry into sterilised jar and fit with loose lid and place in fridge for next brew.( how long can keep it and when would i need to secure lid)
5. Decant remaining starter and pitch into brew.
I realise the amounts need to be verified from spreadsheet but does this method seem about correct.
Again sorry if it all seems a bit stupid but first time at trying this method of using a liquid yeast

You've got the methods all correct, I don't overbuild in quite that way but do harvest yeast, split samples and step up starters etc with a stirplate.

I have been using 1litre starters but starting to feel I may be underpitching a little - always getting a full ferment but can take a while to get to final gravity.

I would use the method you have listed but go for a starter of 1.2 - 1.3litre starter to pitch into your brew (to give you more cells), and save a bit less in the fridge for next time (say 200 - 300ml).

Or make a 2litre starter and use 1.5l for your brew and save 500ml for the future.

This saved yeast will keep in the fridge for 6 months or more, but will need building again/freshening up before pitching into a brew.

to answer some of your questions:
2 So i make up a 1 1/2 lt starter using LME and water (how much LME)?
Use 10% LME - so for 1 litre starter add 100g of LME, 1.5litre starter add 150g of LME, 2 litre starter add 200g of LME etc.etc.
3. Shake min 4 times a day for how long? not sure of when the starter ready.
A starter normally ferments out in 2-3 days so I would start it 3-4 days before your brew, no need to fridge the sample you will be pitching ahead of brewday, just fridge the yeast your saving for future brews.
4. pour off a 1/2 lt of slurry into sterilised jar and fit with loose lid and place in fridge for next brew.( how long can keep it and when would i need to secure lid)? You may get some pressure building a little in the jar for a day or so after popping it in the jar, I tend to release the lid once after 24 hours in the fridge then secure tightly and leave it alone - will keep for 6 months or more in the fridge.

It goes without saying all your kit for starters/harvesting has to be clean and well sterilised to avoid infecting your stored yeast.

I would also top crop a little sample of yeast from the krausen of your fermenting brew (2-3 days into fermentation) and pop that into a smaller jar for storing in the fridge (after letting it ferment out fully in the jar (lid loose) for 3-4 days sat next to your main fermenting brew). Then pop that in the fridge - gives you another little yeast sample to build up for future brews.

You are trying to avoid having yeast samples under pressure as it damages the yeast cells apparently - which is why you want to allow samples to fully ferment before storage - and loosening then re-tightening jar lids to release any pressure prior to long term storage is a good idea.

ITs actually quite straightforward - hopefully a few useful ideas for you there. Hope this helps.

 

[private4587]

Pleas have a look at my method and comment please.
My 2lt Overbuild Starter using Wyeast 1469
I want to make a 2lt overbuild yeast starter, using the Homebrew Dad's Yeast Starter Calculator v1.1 the results show that I must make a twostep starter. Below is my method of carrying this out. From the table, it shows that I need 301 billion cells
1. Remove the night before the Wyeast smackpac from fridge and allow to come to room temp.
2. Locate the activator pac and break with a sharp smack.
3. Pace in brew fridge and allow to swell.
4. Next day pour 2.2lts of water into pan and bring to boil.
5. When boiling add 220g of Liquid Malt Extract (Holland & Barret) and mix well.
6. Boil mixture for 5min and then place in sink filled with iced water to cool, cover with sanitised lid.
7. When Temp is at approx. 22C remove from sink and pour into a sanitised 5lt water bottle or demijohn, and add contents of smackpac.
8. Place sanitised lid on bottle and give the bottle a vigorous shake for a few mins.
9. Allow to stand for a few mins and then place in brew fridge set at 22C.
10. Remove and shake bottle min of 4 times/day for two days, each time remembering to tighten top before shaking and loosening afterwards.
11. After two days place in cold fridge and allow the wort/yeast to separate.
12. After yeast has settled out (maybe a day) decant liquid off yeast cake leaving approx. 1cm of liquid behind, this should give me approx. 165 billion cells.
13. Next day pour 2.5lts of water into pan and bring to boil.
14. When boiling add 248g of Liquid Malt Extract (Holland & Barret) and mix well.
15. Boil mixture for 5min and then place in sink filled with iced water to cool, cover with sanitised lid.
16. When Temp is at approx. 22C remove from sink and pour into a sanitised 5lt water bottle or demijohn, and add contents of decanted wort/yeast.
17. Place sanitised lid on bottle and give the bottle a vigorous shake for a few mins.
18. Allow to stand for a few mins and then place in brew fridge set at 22C.
19. Remove and shake bottle min of 4 times/day for two days, each time remembering to tighten top before shaking and loosening afterwards.
20. Once starter is finished, make sure contents are well mixed and pour 500ml into a sterilised jar, leaving the lid loose and place into cold fridge.
21. With the remaining 2lt starter place in fridge and allow to separate.
22. After yeast has settled out (maybe a day) the starter should have a layer of yeast on the bottom with a layer of wort above.
23. The next day commence brew and once wort has reached pitching temp, carefully decant liquid from starter leaving approx. 1cm behind.
24. Swirl remaining liquid and yeast until mixed and pitch into the fermenter.

 

[JapanBrew]

That sounds good. The shake method is a little harder and takes time. If you're going to start re using and harvesting yeast you should really get a stir plate. Makes a lot of difference. The main reason is it's degassing the mix while adding oxygen. This is important for cell growth.
Oh, also sanitized and sterilized are totally different things. Your jar and anything coming into contact with the wort for the starter should be sterilized. That means boiled for at least 5 minutes. This is why those flasks are so nice. You can boil the whole mix in the flask, cool and use. No transfer. You can also soak in 77% or above ethanol. I use an ethanol spray that is commonly fund on boats to kill off anything that might infect food

 

[foxbat]

Don't forget that the calculators assume DME. If you're going to use LME then multiply all weights by 1.2 to account for the fact that LME is about 20% water.

 

[private4587]

Don't forget that the calculators assume DME. If you're going to use LME then multiply all weights by 1.2 to account for the fact that LME is about 20% water.

By weights I assume you mean the weight of LME that i placed in my methodology. These quoted weights i took from the statement from MyQul in which he says for a 2lt starter use 220g of LME (Holland & Barret)

 

[Ben034]

That sounds good. The shake method is a little harder and takes time. If you're going to start re using and harvesting yeast you should really get a stir plate. Makes a lot of difference. The main reason is it's degassing the mix while adding oxygen. This is important for cell growth.
Oh, also sanitized and sterilized are totally different things. Your jar and anything coming into contact with the wort for the starter should be sterilized. That means boiled for at least 5 minutes. This is why those flasks are so nice. You can boil the whole mix in the flask, cool and use. No transfer. You can also soak in 77% or above ethanol. I use an ethanol spray that is commonly fund on boats to kill off anything that might infect food

Would you say VWP is a steriliser? I tend to soak my stir plate jar / plastic yeast storage vials in VWP, rinse with water, and then starsan. Any flaws with this? I could boil the glass jar but I'm not sure about boiling the plastic vials (they may be ok?)

 

[MyQul]

Would you say VWP is a steriliser? I tend to soak my stir plate jar / plastic yeast storage vials in VWP, rinse with water, and then starsan. Any flaws with this? I could boil the glass jar but I'm not sure about boiling the plastic vials (they may be ok?)

I've boiled plastic centrifuge vials, no problem, before

 

[JapanBrew]

Never used it but just read a little about it and it looks like you have to rinse it off. I think defeats the purpose. The water that you're using could have wild stuff in it.

 

[Ben034]

Good to know. Have had good success mostly with overbuilding and storing yeast starters but a couple of vials of British ale yeast soured 2 separate batches so need to be extra cautious.