Old Beers and Brewing

[EddtheBrew]

Hi Dan ,
Yup , you won't get as great an extract as you would with maris otter , maybe a 50/50 split with the Chevalier?
Definitely increase the mash temperature to 156-8°F .
I'll pop a "patent/black malt broth" recipie up later , as the colour's a bit light , around 26-28 ebc would be nearer my mark on this one .
The stand hops aren't right in the time factor dept , at the end of the boil , wait 15 minutes before adding the stand hops, stir well , for a half hour stand before cooling to pitching heat .
On the yeast selection , I'll have a look at the supplier you mentioned and reply with a couple of recommendations.
Cheers
Edd

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi Dan ,
Here's my yeast strain recommendations ,
Wyeast : 1203-pc
White Labs :
WLP 025 - Southwold
WLP 030 - Thames Valley
WLP 059 - Melbourne
Hope that helps, any other questions, pop me a message etc,
Cheers
Edd

 

[dan125]

Hi Dan ,
Yup , you won't get as great an extract as you would with maris otter , maybe a 50/50 split with the Chevalier?
Definitely increase the mash temperature to 156-8°F .
I'll pop a "patent/black malt broth" recipie up later , as the colour's a bit light , around 26-28 ebc would be nearer my mark on this one .
The stand hops aren't right in the time factor dept , at the end of the boil , wait 15 minutes before adding the stand hops, stir well , for a half hour stand before cooling to pitching heat .
On the yeast selection , I'll have a look at the supplier you mentioned and reply with a couple of recommendations.
Cheers
Edd

I don't mind the lower extract, as I'd rather be able to give the chevallier a good taste test than mix it with the MO - I'll adjust the recipe to allow for a bit of a lower efficiency.
That sounds like quite a high temp at 69-70C and would give a predicted FG for that yeast of around 1.017
I wouldn't mind adding a bit of colour but also happy to keep it pale to really showcase the malt.
On the software I can't specify a 15 min wait followed by a 30 min stand, but this is pretty much what I always do with my steeping/whirlpool hops, but I had to put a timing in to the software - it won;t make much difference to the IBUs.
Could you recommend a yeast from Whitelabs please? As I could tehn get everything from a single supplier:-

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product-category/ingredients/yeast/white-labs/

EDIT: - just seen your Whitelabs recommendations - thanks

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi Dan ,
The old Brewers were Mashing at what seems to be crazy temps to some , but I'd still say around 156°F Fahrenheit for the mash temperature, on the basis that the old brewers were comfortable using that temp range .
Was going to say , the WLP suffix was a white labs one !!
Cheers,
Edd
PS: WLP 023 Burton ? Would be another !!

 

[F00b4r]

I only generally do work on Defunct breweries beers (where the brand isn't brewed/ marketed anymore) , the only exception being some of the Magee's beers , but I own the rights to them so don't have to worry about angry lawyers letters on that one at least !!.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help ,
Cheers
Edd

So is this you Edd?:

https://boakandbailey.com/2016/04/magee-marshall-of-bolton-is-making-a-comeback/

 

[EddtheBrew]

Yup ,
Guilty as charged m'lud !
Its taking longer than expected though .
Hopefully I'll be posting some news on here in the not to distant future on this ,
Cheers
Edd

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi All ,
Here`s the Greenall`s IPA (St Helens) that I said I`d post up a couple of days ago ,
Cheers ,
Edd

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi All ,
Here`s another cracker from the Eshaldwell Brewery of Henry Bentley & Co Ltd ; an X P ( X PORTER) it`s from 1893 .
It`s the weakest of the three Stouts and Porters Bentley`s were knocking out back then , at around 5 1/4 % abv .
the next recipie i post will be another porter , this time from the RIGHT side of the pennines :laugh:!! ( T & G Greenall , Hall St , St Helens : Porter from 1863 )
Cheers
Edd

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi All ,
Here`s the Greenall`s Porter from 1862 , hope you enjoy it ,I`ll be posting another recipie next week , not selected which one yet though ; has anyone got any style preference ? , i`m edging towards choosing a Bitter or a Pale Ale !!
Cheers and Happy Mashing ,
Edd

 

[dan125]

Just picked this up in tesco. Not sure if its 100% chevallier but thought it would be interesting to try

 

[EddtheBrew]

Just picked this up in tesco. Not sure if its 100% chevallier but thought it would be interesting to try

Hi Dan ,
I've heard about this one, not seen it on sale near me yet , but I'll probably be trying it out when I do !! .
Let me know what you think of it .
I've got a couple of recommendations for you : Sam Smith's India Ale , a superb 5% abv Pale Ale , and what i regard as the best UK produced Stock Ale , "Yorkshire Stingo" ; matured in wood for a year before being bottled ( it's Bottle Conditioned) , their other beers are worth checking out as well ; the brewery also have an online shop if you can't get it near you,
Cheers
Edd

 

[dan125]

Thanks Edd.
I'm enjoying this beer. Its got a bit of English fruity ester aroma and a rich nutty maltiness.

 

[BillyD]

Edd,

I'd been talking to someone about old Bolton breweries last week and we did a bit of casual dinnertime googling and it had us thinking that there might be info in the Whitbread archives in the AIM25 project for some of the breweries. We would never have gone any further than that but I stumbled back into this forum and found this thread, and with Duttons having taken over some of the breweries I was wondering if you had come across any recipes from other Bolton breweries (I can't remember which ones got taken over by Duttons off the top of my head) ?

 

[EddtheBrew]

Edd,

I'd been talking to someone about old Bolton breweries last week and we did a bit of casual dinnertime googling and it had us thinking that there might be info in the Whitbread archives in the AIM25 project for some of the breweries. We would never have gone any further than that but I stumbled back into this forum and found this thread, and with Duttons having taken over some of the breweries I was wondering if you had come across any recipes from other Bolton breweries (I can't remember which ones got taken over by Duttons off the top of my head) ?

Hi Billy ,
Thanks for posting on the thread.
Dutton's of Blackburn took over John Hamer & Sons of Bromley Cross in 1952 , and Hamer's took a controlling interest in another Bolton brewery in 1926 ( Joseph Sharman & Sons ) which they sold to George Shaw & Co of Leigh the following year .
I'd be interested in any info on the project you mentioned , as I believe that there are a few unidentified brewing records in the collection @ London Metropolitan Archives;
I'll try and remember to have a look at the LMA catalogue tomorrow.
I'd also be happy to correspond directly if you'd like to email me directly, my email address for beery stuff is: [email protected] ,
Cheers
Edd

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi Billy,
Forgot to add that sadly I haven't seen, or heard of any other records from Bolton breweries surviving , the last one to close was Magee's in September 1970,
( I've only got a Brewing Book which dates from Thursday 17th April 1969~ Monday 21st September 1970 , and a Brewer's Cost Price Book dating from Tuesday August 18th 1903 ~ February 1952).
I'd dearly love to find other breweries records though ,
Cheers
Edd

 

[BillyD]

I don't think we touched on anything you won't have been aware of Edd, but here's where our corned dog butties took us to.

Info primarily from sites like labology.org.uk and http://lostpubsofbolton.blogspot.co.uk/ and that got us to:

Thomas Howcroft ---> Cunningham's (Warrington)
Leach's ---> liquidation (possibly Cunningham's)

Robert Wood ---> Tong ---> Walker Cain ---> Tetley
William Tong ---> Peter Walker (Warrington) ---> Tetley
Hodson's ---> possibly Walker's ---> Tetley

Uncle Tom's Cabin ---> Dutton's ---> Whitbread
Settle's ---> Dutton's ---> Whitbread
John Hamer's ---> Dutton's ---> Whitbread

The Whitbread line lead to the AIM25 link :

http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=14684&inst_id=118&nv1=browse&nv2=repos

which does go to the LMA like you said.

I had a brief look as well at the Tetley just because they might have had summat online as I guessed they would have an archivist, but everything got a bit convoluted and it looked like a lot of records from some of the bigger brewers ended up having a desperate attempt to save them and then they got spread about and are in a variety of states of categorisation etc.

Passed a dinner half hour on which is about as far as we would have gone tbh, and food for thought to think that there's probably a similar story in every part of the country and that most recipes will end up lost to all intents and purposes.

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi Billy ,
Quite a lot of the old brewers records got fed to the boilers ! , and I know that most of the older 'surplus!' Archival materials from Magee's was destroyed in 1927 by order of the board .
Yup , its a reyt bugger trying to track down the other Bolton breweries records,
Walker's records @ Liverpool Archives, Central Library, Liverpool.
Dutton's of Blackburn records are at the Lancashire Record Office, Bow Lane , Preston.
The Joshua Tetley records are over at West Yorkshire Archives , Morley
I believe I've managed to track down a few of the Walker's subsidiary breweries beers as brewed @ Dallam Lane , Tong's, Ellis Warde Webster (Ormskirk)
And Airey's and Oldfield from Wigan .
I've got a copy of the Diamond Brewery (Tong's) Auction Catalogue on a memory stick, if you'd like a copy , pop me an email .
Cheers
Edd
PS: I hope you had some Barton's Piccalilli on tha Corned Dog butties !!

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi All,
Here's a nice Edwardian Stout from Magee's (June 1906)
I'm a bit busy at the moment, hence the handwritten recipe I've uploaded, any questions, pop me a message etc ,
Cheers & Happy Mashing
Edd

 

[Slid]

https://www.britishhops.org.uk/varieties/bramling-cross/

Interesting recipe. with 19% crystal and 8.25% Black malt.

Bramlings is a variety of the Goldings hop, according to my research, but does the Bramling X refer to an earlier cross-bred variety (see link above)?

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi Slid ,
It's the modern (ish) Bramling X that I included in the recipe ,
Cheers
Edd