No trucks, CO2 and Christmas is cancelled.

[Chippy_Tea]

My wife works in transport. All experienced drivers from outside UK do not WANT to drive any more there, because of the administrative hassle.

Being truck driver i can see why admin would put some people off but its mainly low wages, long hours, living in the cab for days on end, the state of facilities for drivers (some are like the toilet scene from trainspotting) several other reasons.
A couple of posts from the same thread on the subject below, [zb] is the swear filter.


This is one of the major problems with the haulage industry.
Honestly who the [zb] wants to work 15 hour days 5 days a week? Yes I know it's 3 days but you will still have drivers having split rests and quite happy doing 5 x 15 hour days. 75 hours a week over 5 days is ridiculous and running in on a Friday on the 14hour and 46 min mark.
Trying to get it into people's heads if you reduced the hours to 12 and paid time and a 3rd or half after 8 hours you would be better of than doing 15 hour days at a flat rate or £1 extra a hour.
But then they would still want to do 15 hour days at the enhanced rate or crying about hours been cut.
Me personally would like 12 hour days can work 6 days a week. one rest day every 6 days.

This is one of the main reasons it's finding it hard to attract young lads n lasses into the industry. Honestly look at your 20-21 sons and daughters can you honestly see them sleeping in a cab all week doing 60 and 70 hours every week?
This was probably the biggest way or recruiting in the 70s through to 90s is drivers kids done the job there dads did. not anymore thou.

---------------------------------------------------

Sadly the chattering classes of the public don't seem to have an opinion of their own but make loud noises consistent with the consensus of the day, its just a case of waiting a while before drivers return to public enemy number one and held mostly responsible through their greed and union led? uncooperative attitudes (you can already guess how this will be portrayed) of the now overpaid drivers have led directly to the coming shortages in the shops, as well as the rapidly increasing prices within.

You know very well that whilst a driver's take home income can look attractive, inviting envy when figures like £50+k will be bandied about as the new normal incl subsistnce ex's, few of those who will look at us through their green lenses will have the slightest interest in how many hours we work or when we work or what we have to do to make that sort of pay, they will be following the coming narrative totally unaware that most drivers are at work hours before and hours after the envious hordes plus weekends and bank hols which the gold plated pensioned in charge have never worked.

The job is changing for many, but it's pure economics that are driving things, on a current thread we have a Norfolk general family haulier selling 30% or so of their small fleet apprently unable to get a single driver, i feel sympathy for these operators because they simply don't have the volumes contracts or clout to raise rates to up their game, and by virtue of geographical base unless they employ drivers prepared to stay out all week can't take advantage as so many in the central belt are doing of hiring out tractor units plus driver for lucrative day rates to the logistics giants in order to keep their big clients happy...traction work has always been volatile, wouldn't want to be a driver reliant on traction for my living.
I'm not aware the haulier in question was depending on now vanished EE's working cheaply to man their vehicles but happy to be put right if that was the case.

They won't be the only operator in trouble, their problem is they are dependent on carrying goods for others...larger operations may well be contract transport or even own account for supermarkets or manufacturers who, all being in the same boat, can raise prices of their goods to cover increasing transport costs, or hire in subbies which probably comes under another budget, the client is going to pay whatever is needed rather than see whole consignments of perishables going rotten or the shelves empty with disgruntled shoppers changing allegiance.

The current media interest in driver shortage is going to be short lived, the next virus unrelated to covid is already being warned about with the politicians and media having a new crusade so we'll soon be back to being the unwanted evil we've been for decadse.
So no, in the long term the current shortage (of those prepared to work competently for low pay) won't make much difference to the job as a whole, but many of us will have swapped jobs in the interim chasing possibly temporarily better t's and c's, those who have will find out if that's worked out for them in due course.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Christmas will not be cancelled in my house. A shan't remember most of it...

Same here like most years of late.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Breathing in nitrogen will surely despatch livestock in a humane way. There have been a few nitrogen death in labs due to lack of ventilation and in humans no gag response unlike co2 so is that the same for animals? Anyway I reckon the govt are going to subsidize gas for the fertilizer producers to get them to start back up to get the co2 flowing again.

 

[The Baron]

Never used CO2 to stun cattle/pigs and sheep in my early career. They used electric tongs on there temple area to stun them.
I am sure if it becomes a issue they will revert to that method.
There is a way around most of the possible negative sooth sayers predictions so do not worry its the usual media news trying to spin doctor things to fill their papers and news programmes.
The only thing they will trigger is panic buying, Hmm maybe a ploy by some supermarkets to get us to stock up and get a quick upturn in trade

 

[Victor Churchill]

Never used CO2 to stun cattle/pigs and sheep in my early career. They used electric tongs on there temple area to stun them.
I am sure if it becomes a issue they will revert to that method.

I was gobsmacked when I heard that CO2 is crucial to the industry for using for "humane slaughtering". I imagine I'd rather be tasered unconscious instantly than gradually suffocated in a gas chamber.

Speaking as a non meat eater I leave my opinion of this excuse as an exercise for the reader.

 

[Clint]

But why should anyone work a 70 hour week?? I did when I was younger and I could do now if I chose to but I'd sooner be at home.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

But why should anyone work a 70 hour week?? I did when I was younger and I could do now if I chose to but I'd sooner be at home.

They are limited to 56.

A HGV driver can get no less than nine hours’ daily rest within a 24-hour period up to three times in a week. This means that drivers can work three 15-hour days within the space of a week. This article will provide further insight into just what hours HGV drivers should be working, and what regulations are in place to ensure they get adequate rest.

A breakdown of driving hours and breaks:

• The regulations stipulate that drivers can only drive for four-and-a-half hours (either continuously or in successive periods) before taking a statutory break of at least 45 minutes.
• This break can be split into two, provided the first break is at least 15 minutes and the second part at least 30 minutes.
• The overall weekly driving limit is a maximum of 56 hours.
• The standard maximum daily driving time is nine hours a day, although there is dispensation to increase this to ten hours within the space of a single fixed week.
• The maximum driving time over a single fortnight is 90 hours. Therefore, if a driver drove 56 hours in one week, he must drive only 34 hours in either the preceding or following week.
  
• Driver rest periods:
  Daily
  
  
  • Ordinarily, every member of the crew must take a minimum of 11 hours’ rest between working days in every 24-hour period
  • However, this can be lowered to at least nine hours a maximum of three times between two weekly rest periods
  • Drivers can work three 15-hour days within the space of a week
  • Furthermore, daily rest periods can be taken in two separate periods, so long as the first is a minimum of three hours and the second a minimum of nine
• Weekly
  
  • Each crew member must have a weekly continuous rest period of 45 hours. While this can be reduced to 24 hours in one week, every driver must have at least one 45-hour break over the course of a fortnight.
  • Where a weekly rest period has been reduced, it must be compensated through the addition of another rest period of nine hours. This must be done by the end of the third week following the week concerned.

 

[johncrobinson]

You obviously know a lot more than me about HGV drivers Chippy,
But what do you think is happening regarding all these sudden shortages.

Even during the OIL CRISIS days of the seventies I dont remember things as bad as this.When there was little fuel for trucks or anything else.

Massive price hikes for basic foods and heating would be a major disaster for those who have only just about managed to hold it together for the last year or two.

 

[VW911]

I used to work in a meat processing plant. (Beef and lamb) Not a whiff of CO2 there.
Animals were stunned with a captive bolt gun, then slaughtered. Not pretty, but effective.
I'd happily have beef for Christmas dinner... (Not that I'm that bothered about the dinner itself - I look on it as a starter for the Port and Stilton!)

 

[Gerryjo]

Have to stop reading the news, it's just depressing at the minute.

Energy prices set to so aswell. Good job we are all going to be buying electric cars soon.

Electric cars which need gas/oil to power the power stations costing just as much if not more to charge as they will look to eliminate the free charging stations.

 

[Gerryjo]

That's the problem, I seen somewhere that a pilot changed to driving for Waitrose during lockdown. Ended up earning more money as a lorry driver.
Teachers coming out of university are expected to start on 24 k a year. Surely the system is out of balance if a lorry driver is on more money than a teacher, nurse or pilot

I seen an advert last week at motorway services of the M6 looking for drivers and willing to put them through the test starting at £35k.Food for thought though Henderson food group here in NI have there own friver training school and reckon NI doesn't have a shortage of drivers.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You obviously know a lot more than me about HGV drivers Chippy,
But what do you think is happening regarding all these sudden shortages.

Even during the OIL CRISIS days of the seventies I dont remember things as bad as this.When there was little fuel for trucks or anything else.

Massive price hikes for basic foods and heating would be a major disaster for those who have only just about managed to hold it together for the last year or two.

I don't drive artics so cannot comment from experience but i have been reading the truck forums for a while and the article below sums it up.

As the article below says there isn't a shortage of drivers there is shortage of qualified drivers who no longer want to do the job (600,000 of them) the latest nail in coffin is driver facing cameras of course they are told they are for the good of the driver but would you want a camera facing you all day and bear in mind many drivers sleep in their cabs, people have a



HGV driver shortage was inevitable
A culture of increasing profit by reducing costs, with frontline workers paying the price, has led to the crisis in road transport, says Richard Simpson
As a former editor of Trucking magazine, I can only say that the shortage of truck drivers has been a long time coming (HGV driver shortages could ‘cancel’ Christmas, warns Iceland boss, 25 August). Road transport shares with the social care industry an enduring culture of increasing profit by reducing costs, with frontline workers paying the price. Both transport and care are now dominated by agencies, which seem to do little for the pounds of flesh that they extract from staff and clients. Unsurprisingly, people prefer to earn a living in other ways.

There are about 600,000 people holding LGV cat C (rigid truck) or cat C+E (articulated lorry) licences in the UK who do not currently drive trucks for a living. Why would they want to return to the job? Facilities are poor, the hours brutal and the responsibilities onerous. And these are only going to get worse. The latest changes to the highway code appear to make truck drivers entirely responsible for the stupidity of childish “vulnerable road users” who are now being encouraged to treat the road as a playground while “adult” drivers look after them. A rethink is needed.
Richard Simpson
Launceston, Cornwall


This is a brilliant video watch the truckers comments in the top left corner -

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The latest changes to the highway code appear to make truck drivers entirely responsible for the stupidity of childish “vulnerable road users” who are now being encouraged to treat the road as a playground while “adult” drivers look after them. A rethink is needed.

The Road Haulage Association (RHA) has voiced ‘serious concerns’ over proposed changes to the UK’s Highway Code saying it’s a frightening and irresponsible policy.

The changes, it argues, would leave truck drivers legally liable in the event of a collision.

The Department for Transport has proposed three key changes to the Highway Code. They are:

– All drivers to give way to pedestrians who are crossing or waiting to cross a road

– Cyclists have priority at junctions when travelling straight ahead

– The introduction of a ‘hierarchy of road users’

Under the proposed hierarchy of road users, pedestrians sit at the top, followed by cyclists, motorcyclists, car drivers, and van drivers, with truck drivers placed firmly at the bottom.

This means a truck driver would have a greater responsibility to someone driving a car or motorcycle, and a cyclist would have a greater responsibility than a pedestrian.

In a statement issued by the RHA, these changes would ‘undermine the simple principle that we are all responsible for the safety of ourselves and all others when using the roads’.

‘In our view this responsibility translates into legal liability,’ the statement claimed. ‘It simply places more responsibility on the driver of the largest vehicle.’

The RHA argues: why should some road users have less responsibility and obligation than others?

Under the new rules, drivers and motorcyclists should ‘not turn at a junction if to do so would cause a cyclist going straight ahead to stop or swerve.’

This means that if a truck driver is indicating to turn left, they would have to give way to a cyclist coming from behind and undertaking on the nearside.

According to the RHA this creates a situation that is dangerous for the cyclist and leaves the truck driver legally liable.

All road users are invited to respond to the consultation which closes on 27 October.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We think jams on the M6 are a pain in the arse imagine being stuck in this -

 

[dad_of_jon]

This means that if a truck driver is indicating to turn left, they would have to give way to a cyclist coming from behind and undertaking on the nearside.

as a cyclist myself this is a bad idea, there'll be a lot more cycling deaths and truck driver prosecutions. no good being in the right if you are dead.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I used to work in a meat processing plant. (Beef and lamb) Not a whiff of CO2 there.
Animals were stunned with a captive bolt gun, then slaughtered. Not pretty, but effective.
I'd happily have beef for Christmas dinner... (Not that I'm that bothered about the dinner itself - I look on it as a starter for the Port and Stilton!)

thats why I think nitrogen would be a better option, or maybe it slows down the throughput....

 

[BradleyW]

Will there be enough bog roll though?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Not once the panic buying begins.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

This means that if a truck driver is indicating to turn left, they would have to give way to a cyclist coming from behind and undertaking on the nearside.

as a cyclist myself this is a bad idea, there'll be a lot more cycling deaths and truck driver prosecutions. no good being in the right if you are dead.

Totally agree, doesn't really make sense imo.

 

[Aaron Rennie]

Luckily just got a CO2 refill, should see me into the new year

Me too, and at the time she only had the bigger cylinder.