No chill

[Leard]

I'm similar in wanting to be green and economical with water usage throughout the process. My current setup is that I have a counterflow chiller which I use conservatively to just make sure i get somewhere around 40 as it goes into the FV. I'm not aiming for pitching temps out of the CF as I just let the FV take over and cool the rest of the way down.

I capture all the hot water output from the CF which I then use half for cleaning, and the other half for rinsing. I figure this is quite a good balance of time/water usage.

I think I'll continue to use my coil chiller, but only use it enough to fill a bucket of warm water to use to clean up. My brew last week I managed to fill up two 25-30L buckets, and then had to start dumping the rest into the sink, and I still only got to about 30C.

 

[MashBag]

Mashbag - fans do not cool air - they just direct it - so the turbulence at the outside surface of a tiny part of the kettle will have a tiny effect on the temperature of the liquid inside the kettle. I try to avoid brewing in July and August because of the time taken to reach yeast pitch temperature.

Agree, but they do get the most out of the ambient temp... Say 25c...and then my fridge pump takes over.

I brew all year.

 

[aolcot]

I think I'll continue to use my coil chiller, but only use it enough to fill a bucket of warm water to use to clean up. My brew last week I managed to fill up two 25-30L buckets, and then had to start dumping the rest into the sink, and I still only got to about 30C.

Not knowing how you do things, but a couple of things I used to do when I ran with a coil chiller which may help you reduce water was that as the wort cooled, I used stir the wort very very gently with the chiller coil to help speed up the temperature transfer throughout the wort.
Also as it cooled, I slowed down the water flow through the coil to a point where it was just a trickle. I aimed to try get as hot as possible water out. This seemed to save a bit on the amount of water I used as well.. But coil or CF, i never chilled to pitching temps and was transferring somewhere between 30-40'ish..

 

[Twostage]

Let's say that I like to ferment out and condition my beer in an airtight container, free from further contact with trub. I also got a scale advantage, I ferment at most 10l. This makes it easy to move things.

So you condition before bottling/kegging. Got it.

 

[H0PM0NSTER]

Question for everyone who transfers hot wort to the FV and pitches the next day when cool: Do you aerate the wort when cool before adding the yeast (or is enough oxygen added in the hot transfer)?

 

[The Baron]

I never re-aerate my wort but I do let it drop from above the FV which aerates as I transfer

 

[MashBag]

I never re-aerate my wort but I do let it drop from above the FV which aerates as I transfer

Aeration is not essential. And I do not transfer.

 

[foxy]

Question for everyone who transfers hot wort to the FV and pitches the next day when cool: Do you aerate the wort when cool before adding the yeast (or is enough oxygen added in the hot transfer)?

Depends on the yeast, dry or liquid?

 

[bobukbrewer]

Mashbag- according to the local head brewer, aeration is necessary for his process - and his predecessor bubbled oxygen to achieve it - these people are experts and their income depends on getting it right - or possibly speeding the process up to maximise income.....off topic but I aerate my yeast starter for breadmaking...

 

[Agentgonzo]

Question for everyone who transfers hot wort to the FV and pitches the next day when cool: Do you aerate the wort when cool before adding the yeast (or is enough oxygen added in the hot transfer)?

Aeration is not essential. And I do not transfer.

It's worth pointing out that aeration is important for liquid yeast, but not for dried yeast.

 

[kenstel]

Mashbag- according to the local head brewer, aeration is necessary for his process - and his predecessor bubbled oxygen to achieve it - these people are experts and their income depends on getting it right - or possibly speeding the process up to maximise income.....off topic but I aerate my yeast starter for breadmaking...

I've come across several situations in my working life where processes have been used without any evidence that they were required. Of course, suggesting they stopped using the process met with horror and absolute refusal they'd "always done it like this".

I'm not doubting your brewing profession acquaintances, but the fact that on this, and other fora, some do, and some don't aerate apparently without any ill effect suggests that aeration may perhaps not always be necessary. It certainly shows it isn't clear cut imho. But to each their own. It's perhaps worthwhile, resources permitting, to split a batch and aerate one half but not the other, and treat them the same afterwards. A taste test should establish any difference along with comparison of gravity. Of course, its always easier to keep on doing "whatever" because you don't want to risk a batch, and in this case, aeration doesn't cost much and doesn't take much time.

 

[kenstel]

I'm looking for some thoughts on the 'no chill' method. I'm trying to be more green, and a lot of water is wasted using a coil. I'm still considering using it, but just to get to 80 for the whirlpool.

Most people seem to use these jerry can/plastic container things to no chill in. However, what would be wrong with just transferring to my fermentation bin (one of those 25L plastic ones), airlocking it, and then leaving it overnight? Then I can pitch straight into it. It would save a step and I can't see any downside.

Thoughts?

Many food safe plastics shouldn't be exposed to temps above 80 degrees C.

To save water.
Make large blocks of ice from coke bottles or juice cartons to cool your water in a sink etc. Or use those blue cool blocks. You can probably just use the bottle as is, without breaking the ice out.

Link 2 water butt's at the bottom. Pump water from the top of the first, through your cooler. Put the return in the top of the second. The first butt is refilled by the 2nd, from the bottom, the hot water going into the top of your 2nd is cooled before it gets to the bottom. Either can have ice blocks in them. Total water consumption is virtually nil. Cost of butts, pump and electricity. The butts can be improvised from blue food barrels, or any water tight containers. If 2 isn't enough, use 3 or more.

Not so easy if you brew indoors, but not a problem if you're in a shed or something.

 

[MashBag]

Mashbag- according to the local head brewer, aeration is necessary for his process - and his predecessor bubbled oxygen to achieve it - these people are experts and their income depends on getting it right - or possibly speeding the process up to maximise income.....off topic but I aerate my yeast starter for breadmaking...

Yes indeed. And how many liters are the brewery fermentation vessels and what shape?

I also bake bread every week. One reason for that is because its better than anything we can buy in the shop! Ditto beer.

Commercial does not mean better. They may be experts but in there operating environment and taste is very low on the priority list behind profit, speed shelf life etc etc

 

[foxy]

Yes indeed. And how many liters are the brewery fermentation vessels and what shape?

I also bake bread every week. One reason for that is because its better than anything we can buy in the shop! Ditto beer.

Commercial does not mean better. They may be experts but in there operating environment and taste is very low on the priority list behind profit, speed shelf life etc etc

Profit comes from producing a beer the consumer likes. So priority would surely be at the forefront of the beer produced. Go back a century and a half ago there were close to 50,000 publican brewers. Now that is competition, competition brings out the best in a brewer. In those days it was about custom. Today it is about prestige among the home brewing community. Going back to publican brewers hones the skills of the brewer. I do wonder what the proportion of publican brewers there is now in the UK. It must surely be on the rise?

 

[bobukbrewer]

Mashbag and Foxy - the small brewery I am alluding to won the annual best beer in UK a few years ago. Statistically speaking, it is unlikely this was a terrible beer but less terrible than the hundreds of others being judged.

But I thank you both for your considerate, polite and on topic posts. And for recognising there may be more than one way to achieve an aim.

I wish you both, and this community, a very happy xmas and a successful brewing new year.

 

[MashBag]

OK, had a little win today, trialling fan assisted cooling.
One Pc fan underneath.
Insulation peeled back, with another fan behind.
Finished boil @ 09.00 when I came home after lunch 24c@ 14.00

While I appreciate fans do not cool, they do appear to assist tremendously where the ambient temp is much lower.

As a comparison I would normally expect 40-50c at that time.

Result. I will be doing this again.

 

[Twostage]

OK, had a little win today, trialling fan assisted cooling.
One Pc fan underneath.
Insulation peeled back, with another fan behind.
Finished boil @ 09.00 when I came home after lunch 24c@ 14.00

While I appreciate fans do not cool, they do appear to assist tremendously where the ambient temp is much lower.

As a comparison I would normally expect 40-50c at that time.

Result. I will be doing this again.

Peeling back the insulation will have helped too.

You should look into detachable cooling fans like the things they stick on CPUs only bigger and collar shaped.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I have a cheapo battery-powered USB rechargeable desk fan from amazon. It just creates a gentle breeze, but it's dead easy to just stick next to something (the boiler in your case, the fermerter in my case when it's starting to get a little too warm). Much easier than anything that needs external power.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I find if i don't aerate the wort the yeast tends to clump in small or medium cakes, so i have gone back to cooling, but there was no difference in the taste of the beer

 

[Tony Dyer]

The Well-Cooled brewery is an outlier!

As the name suggests I use well water pumped through an immersion chiller and then the drain hose returns the (slightly warmer) water to the well. The only possible issue is if there are any leaks that dribble back into the cooling wort, but as far as I can tell that has never happened.