No chill sediment - ferment or not?

[Scrattajack]

I'm just about to kick off a fermentation (using Kveik) from a wort I have in a plastic container from a no-chill session. It's been there a few weeks and there's sediment on the bottom. Is it best to transfer the crud to the fermenter too or discard it?

John.

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

I'm just about to kick off a fermentation (using Kveik) from a wort I have in a plastic container from a no-chill session. It's been there a few weeks and there's sediment on the bottom. Is it best to transfer the crud to the fermenter too or discard it?

John.

Convention would suggest that you discard it. But no chill is a convention breaker for sure. I have tried it once. Actually by accident, I didn’t know it was a thing until recently. I was just being lazy Most of the reading into this way of doing things suggests that you pour the boiling wort into a plastic FV. Let the wort cool to pitch temp whilst you go into the yard for a BBQ and then add the yeast when it’s ready. This would suggest that you can happily ferment the brew day crud as there is no suggestion that you would take the time to try and remove it. If you pour the boiling wort into the FV it would still all be in suspension if you see what I am saying. It would settle to the bottom over night and then you just pitch the yeast when it’s ready. Maybe experiment. If the beer turns out bad this time. Maybe cool the wort over night in the Mash tun. When the crud has settled to the bottom, pour into the FV leaving the crud behind in the tun. This would also get some good air into the wort ready to pitch the yeast.

 

[Nicks90]

I always no chill.
Most of the time I drain the hot wort straight in to my fv and leave overnight. Pouring just boiled wort also has the benefit of doubly checking the fv is sterilised, as not much can survive several hours at those temps!
However I do usually let the just boiled liquid settle for 10 mins and then drain it, leaving the last litre in the bottom of the kettle. That's mostly hop debris and some sediment, but I'm not overly fussy. It's made absolutely no difference IMHO to the end result.
Once I even left my wort in the kettle to cool overnight ( both fvs were full) and the drained the super sparkling clear wort in to a newly liberated fv. No difference. Well maybe slightly less trub at the end of fermenting...

 

[foxy]

When I used to 'no chill' I would still filter through a helix, the only part of the trub that got through was the cold beak. This was in a cube which the air was squeezed out so it could last for months. The trub would settle at the bottom of the cube then the wort transferred to the fermenter leaving the trub behind.

 

[matt76]

When I used to 'no chill' I would still filter through a helix, the only part of the trub that got through was the cold beak. This was in a cube which the air was squeezed out so it could last for months. The trub would settle at the bottom of the cube then the wort transferred to the fermenter leaving the trub behind.

Hey @foxy I've seen you mention this helix many times. The idea makes sense to me, large filter area and low flow rate per surface area => less likely to get clogged.

But they don't seem to be very easy to source ready-made here in the UK but DIY is always an option. I note from this old thread you made your own:

I have a BM and the Ace I have never really been in favour of the hop socks and spiders as there are different opinions of loss of hop value of around 10%
After seeing the lauter helix I decided to make my own set up using a stainless steel compression spring and some copper capillary fittings and throwing the pellets straight into the boil.
Here are the results from the BM exactly the same results for the Ace.
The wort in the glass is the final runnings.

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Can you give a rough idea of dimensions? Length of the spring is easy based on the diameter/circumference of the kettle but what about spring diameter? From the copper pipe fittings it looks to be about 22mm - is that about right???

 

[Cwrw666]

Finish your boil. Allow to stand for 30 minutes, then drain the wort into the FV. All the crud and hops will have settled to the bottom of the boiler, so no crud from the boil gets in the FV. I have a filter on the tap in the boiler and can drain every drop of wort leaving all the hops and hot break behind.

 

[matt76]

Finish your boil. Allow to stand for 30 minutes, then drain the wort into the FV. All the crud and hops will have settled to the bottom of the boiler, so no crud from the boil gets in the FV. I have a filter on the tap in the boiler and can drain every drop of wort leaving all the hops and hot break behind.

Yes, understood and this is exactly what I do today (actually I leave it to stand for 1-3 hours).

Most of the time this works perfectly, but there are occasional exceptions where for some unknown reason the crud hasn't settled to the bottom which is a pain, hence the interest in trying something different.

Also, as you say, you have a filter on the tap in the boiler (I don't currently) - are you talking about a simple screen or something like a bazooka filter?

 

[Cwrw666]

I've got a bazooka filter. Only problem I have is with low hop beers like brown ale when the hot break crud blocks the filter. In that case as the wort comes to the boil I skim the hot break off the surface so that there's hardly any left at the end of the boil. Hops alone don't block my filter.

 

[foxy]

Hey @foxy I've seen you mention this helix many times. The idea makes sense to me, large filter area and low flow rate per surface area => less likely to get clogged.

But they don't seem to be very easy to source ready-made here in the UK but DIY is always an option. I note from this old thread you made your own:



Can you give a rough idea of dimensions? Length of the spring is easy based on the diameter/circumference of the kettle but what about spring diameter? From the copper pipe fittings it looks to be about 22mm - is that about right???

Easy to source on Alibaba I bought them in 1 metre lengths minimum order 100 $3 each plus shipping came to $12 each I sold almost 300 for $48 each then I sold my rights to them.
They are about 22 mm with 1.0 mm wire. For 'no chill' 1,0000 mm is enough for filtering cold the 2,0000 mm is minimum.
On Alibaba they come under s/steel extension springs.

 

[Matt_W]

I do no chill and I pour the lot in. It usually sits in the cube for a day or two before it goes into the FV.

If it’s a hoppy one I pour it through a muslin cloth to filter out the crud.

 

[foxy]

Though this is from the LOB site it matters to all brewers to get the separation needed to produce a well made beer.
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/trub-seperation-why-and-how/
Using the helix this is all that came through into a 300 micron bag.

Only the cold break will get past the helix which is most effective when using 'no chill'
I have asked Keg King if they could send some samples of the helix to Brew 2 Bottle which they have agreed to do.

 

[matt76]

Easy to source on Alibaba I bought them in 1 metre lengths minimum order 100 $3 each plus shipping came to $12 each I sold almost 300 for $48 each then I sold my rights to them.
They are about 22 mm with 1.0 mm wire. For 'no chill' 1,0000 mm is enough for filtering cold the 2,0000 mm is minimum.
On Alibaba they come under s/steel extension springs.

Thanks @foxy . Could you clarify what you mean by 1,0000mm and 2,0000mm - do you mean spring wire diameter 1 or 2mm? Surely you can't mean helix length 10000mm (=10m/~30ft)?

 

[foxy]

Thanks @foxy . Could you clarify what you mean by 1,0000mm and 2,0000mm - do you mean spring wire diameter 1 or 2mm? Surely you can't mean helix length 10000mm (=10m/~30ft)?

I think someone hacked my post and put in an extra '0'
So yes 1,000 mm for 'no chill' 2,000 mm for chill

 

[Scrattajack]

It was a compromise in the end. Half of the crud went in because of sloppy pouring due to incompetence. I'd originally thought to seize the opportunity to filter it out, but there you go. Nearly done now, SG of 1010 in three days.

This helix sounds interesting...