next kit? Advice requested.

[marshbrewer]

I'm going through this brewing lark a step at a time, sticking with kits at the moment, turbo cider excepted.


My first kit was Coopers Euro lager. It was OK, but a bit disappointing in areas which I've covered, and got great advice in, another post. I'm fermenting a Coopers Aussie Pale Ale now, taking many of the steps outlined in the how-to guides and putting it in a barrel, and will follow that with another Coopers Euro that will go into bottles. Without boring you with my methodology, I'm trying to change as little variables as I can at a time to see if I can improve my brewing skills (within reason, I can only drink so much!).

So, planning ahead, I would like to try a non-Coopers, but well regarded, lager kit after the 2nd Coopers Euro. Any recommendations? Preferably not a luxury 2 tins of malt jobbie, that will be the next step after this one, but not your standard Youngs, etc.

 

[darrenwest1]

i did the muntons pilsner kit (2 can )
took a while to clear but a great lager once finished

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'm a fan of the Coopers Euro & Pilsener lagers as they come with a proper lager yeast which gives a cleaner taste.

I've also made the Edme German style & the Blackrock Pilsener, both with excellent results - they're priced similarly to Coopers. These don't come with genuine lager yeast so I just saved some of the yeast cake from the Coopers and used that.

 

[Kyral210]

One bit of advice, making lagers is harder than making ales. Why? Making an ale is pretty much throwing the stuff into a sterile and sealed of bucket, keeping your room thermostat at a comfy 18-21°C and waiting for two weeks (basic method). Lager? That takes some doing.

1. Get your water right, soft soft soft!
2. ferment for 3 weeks at 12°C
3. Rack to secondary and store for 4 weeks at 2°C

There is debate and variation on those temperatures, but if your working higher than that then you can forget getting a memorable lager. That is why ale is so popular with home brewers.

What would I recommend next? I would say take the training wheels off just a little bit and start getting great beer. How? First step buy a Good book. Minimum is How To Brew, but this forum will recommend many others, maybe even better ones. But dont underestimate that you need to learn a bit. Next get a good kit with speciality grains. I recommend this:
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Beers_of_the_world_10ltr_Dusseldorf_Alt.html

I have had varying success with BOTW kits, but this one turned out fantastic! Honestly, it was better than the brand bottles I bought in Germany. The reason why this is so much better is that you are using all extract as your base, no sugar, and grains to give a good flavour. If you really want to make an exceptional brew, then add some liquid yeast:
http://www.thethriftyshopper.co.uk/brewer/White-Labs-Yeast-WLP029.aspx

You might of course want to hold back on using liquid yeast because of the cost involved, but that is fair enough. One thing for certain is, once you have seen how much better more involved brewing is, and with a good book to bolster your confidence, you will be hankering after all grain in no time.

It is good to take your steps one at a time, but just don't do the stupid CraigTube thing and brew nothing but tins for 20 years! They are great for starting, but with a little effort you can get a lot more out!

 

[Aleman]

1. Get your water right, soft soft soft!

Munich makes some daumn fine lagers and the water there is anything but soft. . . . As is the water at Dortmund . . . plus if he is not an all grain brewer the water makes a minuscule difference to kit and extract brewing.

2. ferment for 3 weeks at 12°C

Actually the normal schedule for brewing lagers is to ferment for 1 day for each Plato of specific gravity (1 Plato = 4 Gravity points so a 1.048 beer is 12 Plato and will ferment in 12 days). Using a proper lager yeast at between 12-14C will produce a rather nice lager in that time . . . and if you can raise the tempt up to 18C for the last two days it will clean up a lot of the esters it produces early on in the process.

3. Rack to secondary and store for 4 weeks at 2°C

Again, the normal process is to lager for 1 week for every degree Plato . . . so a 12 Plato (1.048) beer would lager for 12 Weeks . . . which is a bit excessive, however 4-6 weeks at however cold you can achieve will give good results.

One can kits have their place, but the quality of the two can kits is so much better, go to the two can kits now its not that much more expensive, and the better product is worth it. . . .Even at 18 quid for 40 pints you are still under 50p a pint!

I would like to try a non-Coopers, but well regarded, lager kit after the 2nd Coopers Euro. Any recommendations? Preferably not a luxury 2 tins of malt jobbie, that will be the next step after this one, but not your standard Youngs, etc.

I used to recommend the Muntons Continental Pilsner with a proper lager yeast and fermented at 12-14C, but I have some concerns about Muntons process and quality over the last couple of years. The Heart Of England Design A Beer Kit have some of the best quality extract I have seen in the last 5 years. A Couple of cans Of DAB Base 2, a Pack of Character Pack 3, and a Hop Finishing Pack Saaz / Hallertau, will give you a really crisp lager. If you want something on the more bitter side . . boil 4 L of the made up wort with the finishing pack for 30 minutes . . . and then add an additional pack to the fermenter (Yes the fermenter) . . . And get a proper Lager Yeast W34/70 or S-23 . . . Unless you have fermentation temperature control messing about with liquid yeasts is a complete waste of time

 

[Baz Chaz]

See .... simples :? :lol:


The only kits I tried were a couple of Brupacks Brewers Choice kits, which had pretty good results, but from there with a little more effort went to AG :!:

http://www.brupaks.com/beerkits2.html

 

[Kyral210]

I made the Brewers Choice Düsseldorf Alt since the Beers of the World one was so good. Now, the Brewers Choice should be just the same as BOTW, but bigger and thus cheaper per pint. All good. But I used the 1 Kg of spray malt (option 2) and ultimately the brew was a poor reflection of the amazing BOTW brew I made. The flavour was kind of their, but the roasted malt just didn't come through and the body was too thin. Why? I think there was not enough malt, hops or grains. Maybe I should just have used less water? Actually that would have done it but that is besides the point. In short, I would go for BOTW over Brewers Choice. One thing though, the wheat beer I brewed from them was AWFUL! I think that might be because it got infected, but who knows. I have a BOTW North German Pilsner in the cold cupboard right now largering (kind of, its too warm) so we shall see how that goes. Its already been sitting there for 2 1/4 weeks, so we have some time to go; just hope it gets colder again.

The best move I made was buying a copy of Beer Smith. I used it to design a Coffee Stout and it is fantastic! Ok, I did base it on an award winning recipe, but still, I was able to use the software to tweek the brew just right and nail it in one go. The next Düsseldorf alt I make wont be from a kit, it will be me buying the individual ingredients and putting them together myself.

 

[marshbrewer]

Thanks for all the advice. I intend to take it in small steps, hopefully working my way upto AG by the end of summer this year.

 

[luckyeddie]

Put the lager down, and walk slowly away and back to your brewing shop and pick up....

A Brewferm Triple.

I'm drinking one right now. It started life on 10 August last year, and was bottled on the 21st. 7.5%, wonderfully full, round-bodied yet fruity taste - a fine Belgian Abbey-style falling-over water.

It's a tenner for the kit, add another couple of quid for the sugar - makes about 10 litres.

The only problem is, if you pop it on the go now, it's a long wait until June or July when it will be at its best.

 

[nickmcmechan]

I do hope I'm not hijacking this topic, but I'm kinda in the same place as the op.

I like nice light crisp clean lager type beers. I'm on my first kit and the 12 weeks to wait on the european lager or a pilsner seems a lot right now.

Thats why I went for Coopers Mexican Cerveca - brew temps are hgher and you get a nice crisp clean lager (accroding to the reviews; I haven't drunk a drop yet!) at the end - instructions say about 5-10 days in FV then 5-10 days in the keg...I've had min in the FV for 8 days now and it seems ready when i look at the clarity and i've had 3 straight readings on SG.

Anyhoos, it looks like the Coopers Mexican Cerveca, Lager and Cider kits seem easy for a starter like me and the op?

(I really like the thought of the pilsners, but i'm not confident i can achieve the temps consistently, however next to the pipes on my combi boiler i'm getting a real steady 22-24C)