New to Grainfather G30

[HoppingMad]

Hi all,

I had a new Grainfather G30 delivered earlier in the week and have just put it together, but I had a question around the mash schedule prior to diving into my first brew (so to speak, I don't actually swim in beer!).

For my first brew, I bought a Brew UK AG "Wreck the Halls" recipe pack, for my Christmas 2021 beer which comes with instructions, including the mash schedule and mash water calculation. The Grain Bill is 5.35kg and the instructions state to mash with 2.5L of water per kg of grain...simple math says that's 13.375L. However, Grainfather has a mash water calculator which states is (Grain Bill (kg) x 2.7) + 3.5 = Mash water volume (L). That comes out at 17.945L, so not a small difference.

My gut would be to go with the Grainfather calculation but any suggestions?

To muddy the water, there's a different mash schedule if you're using a Braumeister system. Should I follow that schedule, given the Grainfather is a competitor to the Braumeister system, or follow the standard instructions do you think?

I have to say, I'm ever so excited but not quite as excited as my 10 year old son. I'm not sure whether I should be immensely proud or extremely worried!

 

[Rodcx500z]

I dont have a gf but if its a 23L brew i would go with gf calculator

 

[HoppingMad]

I dont have a gf but if its a 23L brew i would go with gf calculator

Thanks Rodcx500z,

And yes, it's a 23L brew...out of interest, why would the brew size make a difference to your answer (sorry, potential very stupid question I know)?

 

[Rodcx500z]

I had a look at one of my own recipes for 23L as i work to 3.5 per kg for the mash, my software calculated strike water at 18.5L and sparge at 13.37L, i dont know if thats right or wrong i just go off my brewing software as i do biab but changed the settings to all grain and those are the figurers it gave me but it does sound right, hope this helps you

 

[Rodcx500z]

Forgot there are no stupid ? only those you dont ask

 

[HoppingMad]

Thanks Rodcx500z, I think I'll go with the Grainfather figures then.

I'm going to do a short test run of the brew tonight whilst I do an initial sterilization of the whole system. I'm assuming Starsan is fine to use? I use it for my stainless steel brew pot and all my extract brewing equipment, so I'm assuming it must be fine but you never know!!

 

[Saisonator]

I use this calculator, works out spot on for me.
https://shop.grainfather.com/brewing-calculators

 

[HoppingMad]

Thanks @Saisonator , that's coming out at exactly the same as the Grainfather equation, so it must be using that and negating the need for me to work it out myself. I've also realised there's a Mash and Sparge water caclulater in the App (app looks ok at first glance, although it seems to have horrendous reviews!), which is also giving the same figures, so I'll definitely go with them.

 

[trueblue]

I use the GF calculator and have always found it spot on.

 

[Mattyde05]

Yeah same here I always use grainfather calculator and works good

 

[HoppingMad]

GF calculator is definitely the way I’ll go then.

Just running through an initial boil, at full capacity, to make sure no residual crap is on anything post manufacturing/ delivery. Very much liking the fact I can sit in the front room and watch the temp on the app, rather than having to go and check the GF in the kitchen every so often.

 

[peebee]

… For my first brew, I bought a Brew UK AG "Wreck the Halls" recipe pack, for my Christmas 2021 beer which comes with instructions, including the mash schedule and mash water calculation. The Grain Bill is 5.35kg and the instructions state to mash with 2.5L of water per kg of grain...simple math says that's 13.375L. However, Grainfather has a mash water calculator which states is (Grain Bill (kg) x 2.7) + 3.5 = Mash water volume (L). That comes out at 17.945L, so not a small difference.
…

Surely you mean Christmas 2020?

The extra 3.5L is "recoverable" deadspace (it's "recoverable" because all the mash water ends up in the boil, in one-pot systems the boiler is the mash tun). It is an important figure to include.

2.5L/Kg is quite a stiff mash; 2.7L/Kg does make more sense and you will not notice any difference in the end result.

By-the-way (ignore the following as part of an answer, it's just "additional" information) I use 2.9L/Kg in my "big" brew system and in the Grainfather use about 5.5-8.0L/Kg (variable) because I use the GF exclusively for "no sparge" mashing ("BIAB" emulation!). You'll figure out why as you search for vessels to hold (and perhaps even heat if you go completely OTT) your "sparge" water: Because the guys designing these "one-pot" systems like to ignore sparging arrangements (having a "two-pot" system just doesn't sound cool).

 

[HoppingMad]

Surely you mean Christmas 2020?

The extra 3.5L is "recoverable" deadspace (it's "recoverable" because all the mash water ends up in the boil, in one-pot systems the boiler is the mash tun). It is an important figure to include.

2.5L/Kg is quite a stiff mash; 2.7L/Kg does make more sense and you will not notice any difference in the end result.

By-the-way (ignore the following as part of an answer, it's just "additional" information) I use 2.9L/Kg in my "big" brew system and in the Grainfather use about 5.5-8.0L/Kg (variable) because I use the GF exclusively for "no sparge" mashing ("BIAB" emulation!). You'll figure out why as you search for vessels to hold (and perhaps even heat if you go completely OTT) your "sparge" water: Because the guys designing these "one-pot" systems like to ignore sparging arrangements (having a "two-pot" system just doesn't sound cool).

I’ll definitely try some this Christmas but I used to make my Christmas beer in January, to give it a good time to condition, so I thought I’d do my Christmas brew as my first GF brew, to get it tucked away.

And thanks for the additional info and I’ve already gone OTT and invested in a separate boiler for my sparge water! Does that mean that heating the sparge water isn’t necessary as I have a problem with the heater I ordered, in that the one delivered isn’t the one I ordered (ordered a Grainfather water heater but a Still Spirits T500 boiler was delivered). I’ve been stuck between wanting to do a brew this weekend and returning it to get the one I ordered, as I thought the visible volume indicator the Grainfather unit has would come in useful. The only other descernable difference I can see between the 2 units is the GF is 18L and the T500 is 24.

If I can “get away” without heating the sparge water this weekend, then I’ll definitely return it to get the GF version as it offsets me slightly the branding doesn’t match!

I got also heat the sparge water in my 30L pan but it takes a long time on my gas ring, which is why I bought the GF boiler!

 

[trueblue]

Never tried it myself but some brewers sparge with cold/lukewarm water

 

[peebee]

I don't worry about the sparge water being "just the right temperature", but like @trueblue I've never ventured into the realms of cold and lukewarm sparge water and will have my water somewhere between mash temperature and 76C.

"No Sparge" does take a bit of working out the volumes so isn't a technique to start out with. It is not as inefficient as some people will make out, but it will cause small drops in efficiency (obviously not big enough to stop me). But the articles put out by Grainfather (and others) saying "no sparge" makes inferior tasting beer are complete twaddle: GF and the like want you to buy their expensive (and un-necessary) water heaters!

 

[trueblue]

There used to be a thread on here on how to make a water heater using a cheap kettle from Tescos and a plastic bucket, I did it around 15 years ago and still use it today.

 

[Saisonator]

I don't worry about the sparge water being "just the right temperature", but like @trueblue I've never ventured into the realms of cold and lukewarm sparge water and will have my water somewhere between mash temperature and 76C.

"No Sparge" does take a bit of working out the volumes so isn't a technique to start out with. It is not as inefficient as some people will make out, but it will cause small drops in efficiency (obviously not big enough to stop me). But the articles put out by Grainfather (and others) saying "no sparge" makes inferior tasting beer are complete twaddle: GF and the like want you to buy their expensive (and un-necessary) water heaters!

My last couple of brews were no sparge and I just used the GF calculator and put the treated mash and sparge water in the mash.
Can I ask what extra you do with working out volumes?
Just in case I have missed something. I was a bit concerned it could effect my mash ph.

 

[peebee]

Okay. So my "bluff" has been called!

I cheat a bit and use "Beersmith" as my recipe builder (which is a "pay for"). It has a "BIAB Mash with Full Boil [volume]" option (Mash Profile) which when selected calculates the volumes for you. Such as:

I then go into the recipe's "Volumes" page and add enough "Kettle Top Up" to get "Mash Volume Needed" to be less than "Mash Tun Volume" so as not to end up overfilling the GF.

(I'm aware that these piccies show my "strike" mechanism for a GF - which doesn't have any in-built concept of "strike" - but that's another subject!).

 

[Keruso]

Thanks @Saisonator , that's coming out at exactly the same as the Grainfather equation, so it must be using that and negating the need for me to work it out myself. I've also realised there's a Mash and Sparge water caclulater in the App (app looks ok at first glance, although it seems to have horrendous reviews!), which is also giving the same figures, so I'll definitely go with them.

Quiet some time ago now grainfather did a complete overhaul of the app and website, there were lots of errors all eventually solved with updates. I use the app for every brew and never have a problem. Use either the equation or the app calculator and you’ll be fine. If you create your recipe in the app it tells you the mash and sparge water needed.

 

[foxy]

I would endorse a full volume mash, may cost a couple of dollars more for the grain bill but well worth it.
Once you understand the workings of the GF you can discard the overflow pipe and the top plate, don't understand why the top plate is there, I presume its 'monkey see monkey do' when copying the BM. The BM is different it stirs its self and the top plate is integral to how it works.
I have the BM and three other SVB's and to get the same efficiency as the BM I have to manually stir the grist. The BM automatically stirs every 15 minutes so copying this will achieve a higher efficiency. Bevie actually recommend a few stirs of the GF to get the best possible performance of the grain bill.
Getting rid of the top plate, the grain bed is the filter, the overflow pipe is there as an assurance of the dead space not running dry, choking the return does this also. Having no overflow pipe makes for easier stirring. As the starch converts you can get a feel for this in the stirring, towards the end of the mash the grain tends to become more buoyant so no more stirring is needed.