New Fresh Ale category claimed

[The Baron]

I love Cask but also love my"Cask Style" on my beer engine which is of the style discussed and I would say many members on here do a similar style to me i.e not technically real cask but find it good for them.
I would not like Real Cask to die out but the difference is not always noticeable and if it means more landlords can risk a Pseudo cask as such because it keeps longer and does not go to waste like real cask sometimes so be it and if you were the landlord and it's your money at risk what would you do go to the wall because it is not technically correct Cask?

 

[clib]

A brewery can call this or any beer Real Ale if it wanted to. They're throwing a bone to CAMRA by not doing so. Beer engines have nothing to do with Real Ale even in CAMRAs definition, hence the possibility to get Real Ale from a bottle, polypin or gravity poured cask.

They won't call it real ale because it doesn't fit the accepted definition of real ale so they would open themselves up to accusations of cultural appropriation and dishonesty. I think.

 

[clib]

I love Cask but also love my"Cask Style" on my beer engine which is of the style discussed and I would say many members on here do a similar style to me i.e not technically real cask but find it good for them.
I would not like Real Cask to die out but the difference is not always noticeable and if it means more landlords can risk a Pseudo cask as such because it keeps longer and does not go to waste like real cask sometimes so be it and if you were the landlord and it's your money at risk what would you do go to the wall because it is not technically correct Cask?

There's likely to be a difference to the cask style you put through your beer engine and the fresh ale produced by Carlsberg Marston's. One crucial difference will be the removal of yeast by Carlsberg owned breweries. It may well not be the only difference.

 

[Sadfield]

They won't call it real ale because it doesn't fit the accepted definition of real ale so they would open themselves up to accusations of cultural appropriation and dishonesty. I think.

Indeed, throwing a bone to the only people who have a definition of Real Ale. Although, they don't even use it themselves anymore, having switched to Live Beer.

https://camra.org.uk/learn-discover/the-basics/what-is-live-beer/

The existence and ignorance to a range of CAMRA terminology, with Cask Ale, Real Ale and Live Beer, adds a certain irony to the argument that Fresh Ales confuses and deceives consumers.

 

[Davegase]

There's likely to be a difference to the cask style you put through your beer engine and the fresh ale produced by Carlsberg Marston's. One crucial difference will be the removal of yeast by Carlsberg owned breweries. It may well not be the only difference.

By removing the need for some of the skills required for storing and serving, the drinker gets a pint closer to what the brewer intended.
If the brewers of cask wanted the drinker to have yeast in the glass they wouldn't use finings.
Arguably the main reason the yeast is in cask is to allow for secondary fermentation in the pub ! Which means they can get it out of the breweries quicker so as to not take up valuable space.

 

[clib]

I'll be interested to check out fresh ale, to see how it compares. I hope the kegs are multi use. I also like how cask creates its own CO2. I chatted to the owner of Marble brewery a few years ago and she was very enthusiastic about cask ale, they put a large proportion of their beer in cask because of the sustainability and cost benefits, as well as the quality of the beer.

 

[Davegase]

I also like how cask creates its own CO2.

That's my favourite benefit of fermenting under pressure !

 

[clib]

Indeed, throwing a bone to the only people who have a definition of Real Ale. Although, they don't even use it themselves anymore, having switched to Live Beer.

https://camra.org.uk/learn-discover/the-basics/what-is-live-beer/

The existence and ignorance to a range of CAMRA terminology, with Cask Ale, Real Ale and Live Beer, adds a certain irony to the argument that Fresh Ales confuses and deceives consumers.

I think they do still use the term real ale. And this isn't a discussion about terminology, it's simply about what is the best way to produce and serve British ales, in a format that maximises quality at the point of delivery and also maximises demand.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Does real ale still have gruite instead of hops, or has it evolved as all things do

 

[Sadfield]

I think they do still use the term real ale. And this isn't a discussion about terminology, it's simply about what is the best way to produce and serve British ales, in a format that maximises quality at the point of delivery and also maximises demand.

So we agree then, if Fresh Ale through Hand Pull is better than Fresh Ale through a keg tap, then that should be the way it is served if there isn't enough demand to support Cask Ale.

 

[marshbrewer]

Providing it is clearly labeled as what it is. Which is keg. So, something along the lines of "This isn't live real ale from a cask, but filtered keg which is being served served through this beer engine so you get the theatre you deserve"

Glad we all agree. What shall be chat about now?

 

[Sadfield]

Providing it is clearly labeled as what it is. Which is keg. So, something along the lines of "This isn't live real ale from a cask, but filtered keg which is being served served through this beer engine so you get the theatre you deserve"

Glad we all agree. What shall be chat about now?

Well someone is slow on the uptake.

I like that it at least emphasises the point that freshness is important, and acknowledges that beer from a keg, regardless of dispense will never be Cask Ale.

“It’s not cask, but it’s an attempt to get a similar flavour profile from the mouthfeel and the pub only has to sell seven pints a day to maintain freshness.”

"This is for all ale drinkers, but it’s for drinkers that would walk into a pub and normally not get one so it’s a chance for ale drinkers to get an ale in pubs that don’t do cask, but also a chance for lager drinkers to reappraise ale where they’ve perhaps drifted out of cask and gone into world lager.”

“We don’t want to replace cask ale. We want to preserve cask ale as much as possible. And that message has to be loud and clear. This is not an ‘instead of’."

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2...sh-ale-dispense-for-wainwright-and-hobgoblin/

Cask ale isn't always served from a hand pulled engine though. Aitkin Tall Fonts are popular in Scotland. Gravity pour is another option. There's more to cask than dispense.

How many on here naturally carbonate and serve their Bitter from cask through a beer engine? Not many. Yet many are happy with the same end product this will return.

 

[marshbrewer]

Not really. As I believe I have already said, not everyone will have read Carlsbergs splendid marketing output. So, at the point of sale, I am proposing the aforementioned information, so no one is deceived.

I'm sure you wholeheartedly support that.

 

[clib]

So we agree then, if Fresh Ale through Hand Pull is better than Fresh Ale through a keg tap, then that should be the way it is served if there isn't enough demand to support Cask Ale.

Yes I'm not trying to argue for one thing. But I think the value of cask conditioning is perhaps under appreciated. My feeling is that I like English ales, I want them widely available, and I'd like to be able to get cask conditioned versions, but fresh ale sounds good for situations where cask doesn't work. I had a cask Keller Bier from Redwillow and is was excellent. Probably the best lager I've ever had. I generally don't like lager tbh. This was a whole different level, and I think people miss out on this sort of thing because of a prejudice against cask.

 

[clib]

Does real ale still have gruite instead of hops, or has it evolved as all things do

Things evolve, things disappear.

 

[Sadfield]

I'm not trying to argue for one thing.

You clearly did, though. One has to take what you write at face value.

I see the value of fresh ale, as an alternative to cask ale, but I think it should be served from keg taps.

 

[Sadfield]

@marshbrewer You appear to be the only person unable to join the dots, that both Otter and Marston's both continue to produce cask ale in significant volume, whilst launching alternative products differentiated under a completely new ale category, Fresh Ale. Where is the deception? Did Carlsberg spend £273m buying into Marsden in order to eradicate cask ale? Do you like fanciful conspiracy theories? Surely, eradicating cask without press releases would have been easier.

 

[marshbrewer]

Am I to take it from that, that you don't support my excellent idea for helpful point of sale information?

 

[Davegase]

Am I to take it from that, that you don't support my excellent idea for helpful point of sale information?

Are you afraid that without such labeling you may inadvertently by yourself a pint and enjoy it

 

[marshbrewer]

But how could I inadvertently buy such a pint, as there is absolutely no deception or passing off, as @Sadfield has assured us?