NEIPA - Chalky Aftertaste?

[Joetp]

Hey guys,

I've recently brewed a NEIPA using the Fermzilla All-Rounder for closed transfers and the like! I kegged it yesterday and pulled the first one, and there's a distinctive chalky aftertaste behind the hoppiness that isn't particularly pleasant (it's drinkable, but I've never tasted this before). I was wondering if anyone has encountered this?

My process for the brew is as below, in case it might help diagnose the issue:

-Normal brew. Some whirlpool hops. Added a bit of gypsum during the mash per Brewfather's recommendation for my water profile.
-Since it's a NEIPA, I didn't bother cooling down using the copper wort chiller. I tackled the brew on a weeknight, so wanted to keep the brew time down!
-The next morning, the wort was down to 35 degrees celsius, perfect for Kviek. So I sanitised the already clean Fermzilla, transferred the wort and pitched the yeast.
-After about 2 to 3 days, it was fully fermented. At this point, I quickly took off the lid and dropped the dry hop addition in, put the lid back on and purged/re-pressurised - I let the temperature of the fermenter drop to 14 to 15 degrees celsius in my pantry whilst the drop hop did its thing.
-48 hours later, I closed transferred to the keg and cooled in the fridge, and here I am.

I don't know if it's just that the beer is too young, or something went wrong during the process! Any guidance/thoughts appreciated!

Cheers,

Joe

 

[Dorst]

First thought: It sounds like the beer is really young and there is still yeast / hop sediment in suspension. This can cause a bit of astringent chalky / harsh flavours. I think that the flavour that you describe will ease out with some time.

Second thought: You mention that you have added gypsum for a NEIPA. No other additions like Calcium Chloride or Epsom salts? If with some age it still tastes like chalk you could check your water profile and additions.

Third thought: It's kveik, not kviek

 

[thegrantickle]

+1 to the too young bit. Haziness in a neipa is not meant to be created by suspended yeast, it's extremely young and you will have a hell of a lot of yeast still in suspension. Let it condition for 5 or so days in the cold, most of it will drop out then try again. Too much yeast in suspension is often described as chalky or even powdery.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Yeah sounds yeasty to me

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Yeah, like the others said the beer is too young. I also agree the water profile sounds off for a NEIPA. I’d say no gypsum at all but for a five gallon batch you might add a heaped teaspoon of calcium chloride and half a level teaspoon of ordinary table salt.

 

[thegrantickle]

What yeast did you use, out of interest?

 

[Joetp]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Will keep ya posted! I have noticed Kveik (notice the correct spelling hehe) doesn't seem to flocculate/drop out of suspension as quickly as other yeasts I've used, so it could definitely be that! I've just never noticed the taste as much as with this one!

What yeast did you use, out of interest?

I used the dried Kveik from Crossmyloof, which I believe to be Lallemand Voss, but who knows for certain?

 

[thegrantickle]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Will keep ya posted! I have noticed Kveik (notice the correct spelling hehe) doesn't seem to flocculate/drop out of suspension as quickly as other yeasts I've used, so it could definitely be that! I've just never noticed the taste as much as with this one!



I used the dried Kveik from Crossmyloof, which I believe to be Lallemand Voss, but who knows for certain?

Fair play. I don't know a lot about Kveik tbh

 

[chillipickle]

If you have a brew fridge, you really need to give it a good cold crash to get all them hops and yeast to drop out.
I normally give mine atleast 3 days at 2c.After a day or so you can see all the layers of trub, yeast, hops.Then after 3 or so days you can see another small layer of yeast on top.

Here is a link worth reading:-
https://bisonbrew.com/how-to-brew-neipa/

 

[Donegal john]

I have always found kveik drops out very quickly in any of the brews I have used it in to be honest

 

[Dorst]

I have always found kveik drops out very quickly in any of the brews I have used it in to be honest

Also after 5 or 6 days with no real cold crash?

 

[Donegal john]

Also after 5 or 6 days with no real cold crash?

I’ve never done a nepia with it but the ipa’s and pales I’ve done have cleared up quickly just in the fridge in the keg at serving temp within a week or so

 

[Joetp]

Based on the feedback, it sounds like it's either early beer problems, or I've messed up the water chemistry. Really hoping it's the former! If it's the latter, I know I need to retest my water as something has obviously changed since I did it last. I have done NEIPA's to good effect with only Campden tablets to dechlorinate the water. Hoping the gypsum hasn't messed it up!

 

[Donegal john]

Based on the feedback, it sounds like it's either early beer problems, or I've messed up the water chemistry. Really hoping it's the former! If it's the latter, I know I need to retest my water as something has obviously changed since I did it last. I have done NEIPA's to good effect with only Campden tablets to dechlorinate the water. Hoping the gypsum hasn't messed it up!

Water from the tap changes constantly
My last brew was salty coming out of the fermenter. Never had a salty beer but I did have a rare cup of tea the day after I kegged it and there was quite a salty taste from the tea so possibly a water chemistry change as I live very close to the pumping station. Every day is a school day my father used to say.

 

[chillipickle]

I am still a noob at brewing, but adjusting your water profile, can make a decent beer great.Closed transfer is only part of a good neipa, same as water additions and mash ph.....arrrrgh still so much to learn >.<

 

[Joetp]

The chalky taste isn't showing any signs of fading, unfortunately! I fear this may be a spoiled batch (though I will probably still drink it - it's still nicer than most supermarket lagers haha).

I am now focused on diagnosing the issue and preventing it from happening in future brews. I have an API GH and KH testing kit, so I think I'm going to buy the Salifert Calcium kit too so I can test calcium levels specifically. At the moment, I am relying on my water report for the calcium side of things, which currently states it is 87 mg/l (but I've tonight noticed the report is from 2018, so it is probably certainly out of date). Testing using the GH kit from the API kit is estimating only 10 mg calcium/l. That's quite a big difference, so I'm hoping the Salifert kit will help clear things up and help me diagnose my water issues.

Also, as you folks mentioned, it sounds like gypsum is a big no for NEIPA's, which I didn't realise! I've used it in pale ales to good effect, so did the same here. Every day is indeed a school day!

EDIT: I realise it may still be too soon to judge the beer, but if it doesn't clear up, I'm definitely going to proceed with the above plan B in case it is water issues! Any suggestions for the water treatment "Plan B" are still appreciated!

 

[Dorst]

Water treatment is more about getting the right balance rather than fixing things in my opinion. The most important thing is getting the right sulfate to chloride ratio for the beer you are trying to brew. The NEIPA profile normally has an increased chloride ratio with restrained sulfates. This helps it accentuate a full maltiness over bitterness or dryness (which are desirable in a pale ale).

In all fairness trying to treat your water without having all the data is not possible. Ask your water company or send your water to a lab before treating your water. Alternately you could use RO water.

 

[Joetp]

Thanks! I called Yorkshire Water - they've said they are going to send me an up to date water report. They also mentioned they have reports that are especially helpful to brewers, so they are going to send it through when they can. Guess it's a case of "you don't ask, you don't get"!

 

[Joetp]

So, an update on this one. I think this off-taste was a result of dry hopping for too long.

I made an all Columbus hop IPA over Christmas and left the dry hops in the Fermzilla for a week whilst it cooled and I've got the same taste. Is it possible this is a result of getting unwanted flavours from dry hopping for too long? It's the same astringent, chalky taste I had on this NEIPA.

I'm beginning to think I need to come up with a new dry hopping routine if so. On the NEIPA, I dry hopped loose, and I'm wondering if that could have been a factor as well.

 

[Dorst]

Interesting. In my experience really long dry hop periods tend to lead to grassy / vegetal off flavours not chalk.

Something that does spring to mind again is pellet burn. This is when you loose dry hop with pellets and keg/bottle with the dissolved pellets still in suspension. This leads to a numbing astringent sensation on the tongue and a harsh-ish lingering bitterness. I can see this being perceived as chalk.

Pellet burn is quite easily fixed by cool crashing a tiny bit longer at the end of fermentation. It just drops out of suspension at lower temperatures. Do you keep your kegs chilled? Perhaps look at a floating dip tube?