My Fermzilla has landed

[woody1959]

I would be interested in reading about this have you a link?

Google is your friend.

My knowledge doesn't come from google or from forums, it comes from experiments and from many visits to micro and commercial breweries.

 

[woody1959]

SG is 1.012..higher than I would like, I will check it daily now and see if it drops any more.

 

[foxy]

Google is your friend.

My knowledge doesn't come from google or from forums, it comes from experiments and from many visits to micro and commercial breweries.

My knowledge comes from Google, Google is your friend.
After 11 days your pilsner should be finished, using an ale yeast, which doesn't perform well under any pressure beyond 4 to 5 PSI. Had you used a lager yeast, any lager yeast 15 PSI would be acceptable, though you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of a lager/pilsner taste.
Here is a paper on the performance of ale yeast subjected to pressure from Herriot Watt University and financed by Courage Brewery.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1987.tb04530.x
Also if you put a separator between the outlet of your FermZilla and the Blowtie and gauge you will reduce the chance of the pressure creeping up.

 

[cossie.j]

My knowledge comes from Google, Google is your friend.
After 11 days your pilsner should be finished, using an ale yeast, which doesn't perform well under any pressure beyond 4 to 5 PSI. Had you used a lager yeast, any lager yeast 15 PSI would be acceptable, though you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of a lager/pilsner taste.
Here is a paper on the performance of ale yeast subjected to pressure from Herriot Watt University and financed by Courage Brewery.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1987.tb04530.x
Also if you put a separator between the outlet of your FermZilla and the Blowtie and gauge you will reduce the chance of the pressure creeping up.

Hey foxy. So what you’re saying is pressure fermenting a lager/pilsner just won’t work? Please excuse my ignorance on this but I’m trying to get my head around it all. I plan on doing a pilsner in the next couple of weeks, hopefully under pressure and using the mangrove jacks California lager yeast? Would it work? Also would it taste like a pilsner? Thank you

 

[foxy]

Hey foxy. So what you’re saying is pressure fermenting a lager/pilsner just won’t work? Please excuse my ignorance on this but I’m trying to get my head around it all. I plan on doing a pilsner in the next couple of weeks, hopefully under pressure and using the mangrove jacks California lager yeast? Would it work? Also would it taste like a pilsner? Thank you

Chris White was in Australia a few months ago and he gave a talk at our brew club, he stated that any lager yeast is OK to 15 PSI, and there are commercial lager brewers who do take advantage of this. But for ales, no pressure at all. I have fermented a pilsner under pressure and finished within a week, but believe me you will taste the difference. California Common or Steam Ale which I do like, fermented at about 18 C. And it doesn't taste like a Pilsner, there are no quick ways to make a good pilsner.
Have a gander at this and listen for Chris White saying towards the end I wish someone would invent an open fermenter.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2018/01/1...s-white-john-blichmann-beersmith-podcast-163/

 

[woody1959]

My knowledge comes from Google, Google is your friend.
After 11 days your pilsner should be finished, using an ale yeast, which doesn't perform well under any pressure beyond 4 to 5 PSI. Had you used a lager yeast, any lager yeast 15 PSI would be acceptable, though you wouldn't get within a bulls roar of a lager/pilsner taste.
.

I am just wondering why you are banging on to me about an ale yeast??? if you read what I originally posted I did make it quite clear I was using a lager yeast.

So far you have told me I am using the wrong yeast, my fermenter is the wrong one, my spunding valve is the wrong one, the pressure is incorrect and my lager won't taste like lager..can you see the pattern here that I can? when you do, you'll understand why you just made my ignore list.

 

[woody1959]

Hey foxy. So what you’re saying is pressure fermenting a lager/pilsner just won’t work? Please excuse my ignorance on this but I’m trying to get my head around it all. I plan on doing a pilsner in the next couple of weeks, hopefully under pressure and using the mangrove jacks California lager yeast? Would it work? Also would it taste like a pilsner? Thank you

Allow me to answer your last 2 questions because they were the same questions I had.

Will it work?....so far it has
Will it taste like a Pils?..when I drew the sample off for testing the SG yesterday I did have a sip, as you do, and yes it tastes like a very young lager. But does it actually taste like a Pils? dunno I have never had a Pils that tasted like a Pils at the "racking" stage, ask me again in the new year when it's matured in the keg for a while.

 

[cossie.j]

Allow me to answer your last 2 questions because they were the same questions I had.

Will it work?....so far it has
Will it taste like a Pils?..when I drew the sample off for testing the SG yesterday I did have a sip, as you do, and yes it tastes like a very young lager. But does it actually taste like a Pils? dunno I have never had a Pils that tasted like a Pils at the "racking" stage, ask me again in the new year when it's matured in the keg for a while.

Good to hear. I think maybe I’ll just brew my pilsner as per the recipe, and in the meantime do some more research into getting the most out of pressure fermenting?

 

[woody1959]

Good to hear. I think maybe I’ll just brew my pilsner as per the recipe, and in the meantime do some more research into getting the most out of pressure fermenting?

The only change I made to the recipe was to to use a lager yest instead of the ale yeast that came with the kit.
There isn't a lot of research about pressure fermenting out there for brewers at our level, you might come across some long winded university research papers but TBH I would sooner stick red hot needles in my eyes that plough through those.

The very best research is the research that you do.

My own research has thrown up a couple of things.

The most important is that instructions are at best optimistic, I've just kegged a Coopers real ale yesterday, it took 20 days before the FG remained the same for 3 days running, the instructions state 5-7 days before it's finished.

The pressure creeping up isn't I don't think down to a faulty, cheap blowtie but more likely down to the way I tested it to set the pressure. what I did was to pressurise to 20psi then turn the valve to release gas until it hit 15 PSI..and just thought that was it, what in hindsight I should have done was to release the pressure and then slowly pressurise up again and see where that went. I tried on a keg, yes it shows 15 psi, but releasing and then recharging the valve didn't open until 25psi, so I set it to 10 psi, charged up then slowly turned the valve, added more pressure and then when it got to 15psi, released the pressure and charged it several times and each time it opened at 15psi.

 

[woody1959]

1.010 today so still fermenting, 13 days in.

 

[Richie_asg1]

Just found a PDF that covers leaks & the fixes. -
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/Fermzilla-Leak-Instruction-Manual Final Draft .pdf

Thread design isn't the best. It could be longer, thicker wall and have 2 O rings on it that would fit inside the diameter of the cap. Should be good up till the tank bursts then.
.....Maybe I've spent too long looking at aircraft hydraulics.

 

[BrewsWayne]

You certainly CAN ferment with ale yeast under pressure. You can also finish fermenting in three days.
Here is a screen shot of my iSpindel report from my latest batch:

Fermentation was finished in 36 hours. I pulled the yeast on day 3. Added dry hops for 2 days. Pull them and added Biofine Clear. The beer was ready to be kegged yesterday. It will be kegged tomorrow.

This was all grain, 12 lbs Rahr Standard 2 row malt. 2 packages Windsor yeast. Some Columbus and Cashmere hops.

It was fermented at 20 PSI.

Fermenting at pressure does reduce yeast esters, so it tastes very clean, like a lager.

 

[foxy]

I don't think anyone says you can't ferment ale under pressure, but you are compromising the yeast. It would probably suit you more looking at your location and probably brewing a more hop forward beer than an English style where the esters play an important part in the taste of the finished beer.
I have done both English ales and pilsner/lager under pressure and they do drop clear. The English ale I was drinking on day 5, and that was without any finings, extremely bright but lacked the esters.
Also fermenting a lager the traditional way tastes very different to a pressure fermented lager, I don't think its just my taste buds, as stated in the Beersmith video those doing the taste test could could pick the difference.

 

[woody1959]

You certainly CAN ferment with ale yeast under pressure. You can also finish fermenting in three days.
Here is a screen shot of my iSpindel report from my latest batch:

View attachment 21953

Fermentation was finished in 36 hours. I pulled the yeast on day 3. Added dry hops for 2 days. Pull them and added Biofine Clear. The beer was ready to be kegged yesterday. It will be kegged tomorrow.

This was all grain, 12 lbs Rahr Standard 2 row malt. 2 packages Windsor yeast. Some Columbus and Cashmere hops.

It was fermented at 20 PSI.

Fermenting at pressure does reduce yeast esters, so it tastes very clean, like a lager.

You sound like me, you'd rather "do" than "read".

 

[AXW123]

What is the difference in taste between the two?

 

[foxy]

What is the difference in taste between the two?

With the lagered version of a pilsner you have the crisp, slightly malty taste with a nicely rounded hop bitterness. Remember these are generally open fermented. With a pressure fermented pilsner it seems dull, still clear but lacking the taste.
Making beer or lager isn't a race, if pressure fermenting was so good then all the breweries would be doing it, and all the home brew writers like Colby, Strong, Palmer, Miller etc etc, would be writing about it. Their silence speaks volumes.
This was my first pressure ferment of an English bitter 12/12/17

5 days later 17 /12 / 17 a cleanly dropped clear beer straight out of the fermenter, would I enter it in a comp, no, though it is a beer it just lacks what you would expect from a bitter.

 

[AXW123]

That’s really interesting- thanks for letting me know - I think I’ll stick to what I’m doing then! Long period of lagering in the garden during the winter!

 

[woody1959]

Yesterday I dumped the trub, refitted the bottom ( after filling it with co2) and checked the SG again 1.012.
Checked it today still 1.012 so I decided to transfer it to a corny keg.

After I sanitised and rinsed the keg I filled it with CO2, charged it up to 20psi to check for leaks, none, then connected it to the Fermzilla, connected the co2 tank, pressurised to 20psi and as soon as I started to release the pressure on the keg via the PRV the beer flowed into the keg, took about 5 mins.

Keg is now in the garden which is 7.6c "cold crashing"

 

[woody1959]

Tonight I have a mate coming round, the keg has been in the garden since 22/12 and I will be bringing it in tonight for us to try a beer or 5.
It's been sitting out there at around 8c and 10psi for just over 2 weeks so lets hope we now have a drinkable beer

 

[woody1959]

Well somehow this has all gone pete tong, brought the keg in from the garden where it's been "lagering" for a couple of weeks at around 8c and it;s as cloudly as hell, tastes very yeasty as well :/ Not one I shall be offering to visitors then, I shall however drink it, it's quaffable but only just.