MP Scandals

[foxy]

They wouldn't have called a referendums no. Cameron only called a referendum because he thought he'd win and scarpered the day after losing because he knew what a shambles it would be.

So they wouldn't have gone with the will of the people then.

 

[Dutto]

Tell me why you think it would have been different under a labour government.

Simple. I believe that in the UK:

1. We have some politicians that are honest and hard working.
2. The majority of these politicians are in the Labour Party.

I would also like to be governed by a political party that tells the truth, supports public services and helps the poor and disadvantaged. None of these things have been demonstrated by the current government.

 

[Brew_DD2]

They wouldn't have called a referendums no. Cameron only called a referendum because he thought he'd win and scarpered the day after losing because he knew what a shambles it would be.

Yep. Majority of the population wasn't interested in a referendum on Europe. He was trying put the Right of his party back in its box, and it backfired spectacularly. Only themselves to blame, given that they liked to use the EU as the bogeyman whenever it was politically convenient. Spend years convincing people that all of ours ills are the fault of EU and foreigners, and people start to believe it.

 

[Dutto]

So they wouldn't have gone with the will of the people then.

Of course they would, but only AFTER the public had been informed of the true status of the UK’s membership of the EU and the consequences of leaving!

 

[foxy]

Of course they would, but only AFTER the public had been informed of the true status of the UK’s membership of the EU and the consequences of leaving!

But the labour party stated their views they wanted to remain, as did Cameron. The people had been given the pro's and con's and voted leave. Didn't they have 2 years to get their points across?

 

[Rodcx500z]

The only people who lose money are those who strike, we would still have a car making industry but red robbo and his croneys sorted that out, he for one gave thatcher the idea of crushing the unions

 

[DavidDetroit]

There's another similarity between US and UK I gleaned from the conversation.
Here, it is very common, though untrue, to say, "Well, both parties (Republican and Democrat) are equally bad, they do all the same, wrong things to the same degree, etc."
It just isn't true. Republicans (conservatives) here are in a "grind things to a halt unless it's to give tax cuts to the rich" mode or "Put things back the way they were 200 years ago" mode. And they play dirty and don't get called on it because it's expected and accepted.
It's really messed up here.
You want to know one of the stupidest things ever proposed by conservatives, at least since the '80s,to keep fooling their voters with?
"Trickle Down Economics."
Not all, but the vast majority of those corporations are run by greedy moth** fu***** and will keep every penny you give them if they can.
Went off on a tangent there, I see.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Tell me why you think it would have been different under a labour government.

12 years of counter factual speculation about what an imaginary gov would do is frankly impossible.

However, a Brexit referendum would never have happened without David Camerons fatal political gamble.
No Brexit, no Northern Ireland Protocol.

Also, Boris Johnson as PM is very unlikely without Brexit.

Gombeens like Priti Patel and Liz Truss would not have gotten anywhere without Boris Johnson.

Irish/British government relations would be healthier (all trust in current British gov is at an all time low).

 

[foxy]

12 years of counter factual speculation about what an imaginary gov would do is frankly impossible.

However, a Brexit referendum would never have happened without David Camerons fatal political gamble.
No Brexit, no Northern Ireland Protocol.

Also, Boris Johnson as PM is very unlikely without Brexit.

Gombeens like Priti Patel and Liz Truss would not have gotten anywhere without Boris Johnson.

Irish/British government relations would be healthier (all trust in current British gov is at an all time low).

So we agree it is impossible to imagine what an opposing government would do.
It is also impossible to determine what a Labour prime minister would do in Cameron's shoes.
Could be exactly the same route which Cameron took!
The referendum did happen with ample time for the parties to deliver their case, stay or leave. As we know the outcome was leave, the biggest problem is a number of the population have lost their nerve. It was never going to be an easy path, the EU would never allow that.
But the decision was made and the population should all get behind a democratic decision, failing to do so weakens the position of the nation.

 

[Brianbrewed]

So we agree it is impossible to imagine what an opposing government would do.

Over 12 years, yes. It is probably the only thing I would ever agree with you.

the biggest problem is a number of the population have lost their nerve.

That isn't the biggest problem.

the EU would never allow that.

I live in a EU country. The EU is not a monolith you seem to believe it is.

But the decision was made and the population should all get behind a democratic decision, failing to do so weakens the position of the nation.

No democratic society behaves in this way.

 

[stripeyjoe]

So we agree it is impossible to imagine what an opposing government would do.
It is also impossible to determine what a Labour prime minister would do in Cameron's shoes.
Could be exactly the same route which Cameron took!

The Brexit referendum was held not because the population wanted it but because the ERG and other ‘*******s’ (quote by J. Major) in the Tory party wanted it. There would have been no referendum under Labour.
The real shame in all of this is we had a chance to truly change direction and, like many countries in Europe, become a more social democratic country under a centre left Labour Party however the simple lies trotted out by the Tories of ‘get Brexit done’ and ‘oven ready deal’ won the day. It didn’t help that Starmer and the right of the Labour Party forced the ridiculous ‘negotiate a deal, put it to the people but campaign to stay in’ policy onto Corbyn.

 

[foxy]

Over 12 years, yes. It is probably the only thing I would ever agree with you.
That isn't the biggest problem.
I live in a EU country. The EU is not a monolith you seem to believe it is.
No democratic society behaves I'm this way.

The EU has become a monolith. The rules at the start of the common market were simple, trade with each other. It is now the Hotel California, check in but never leave. Here in Australia we are in free trade agreements but nothing like what the EU has become, laws being passed by an organisation which we have to abide by! Empires are built but always fall.

 

[foxy]

The Brexit referendum was held not because the population wanted it but because the ERG and other ‘*******s’ (quote by J. Major) in the Tory party wanted it. There would have been no referendum under Labour.
The real shame in all of this is we had a chance to truly change direction and, like many countries in Europe, become a more social democratic country under a centre left Labour Party however the simple lies trotted out by the Tories of ‘get Brexit done’ and ‘oven ready deal’ won the day. It didn’t help that Starmer and the right of the Labour Party forced the ridiculous ‘negotiate a deal, put it to the people but campaign to stay in’ policy onto Corbyn.

But you don't know that a referendum would have been held under Labour, that is speculation.

 

[Brianbrewed]

It is now the Hotel California, check in but never leave.

The UK has left the EU.

 

[foxy]

The UK has left the EU.

It has, and if it doesn't stand up for itself copping all the flak for leaving.,

 

[lancon]

The referendum did happen with ample time for the parties to deliver their case, stay or leave. As we know the outcome was leave, the biggest problem is a number of the population have lost their nerve. It was never going to be an easy path, the EU would never allow that.
But the decision was made and the population should all get behind a democratic decision, failing to do so weakens the position of the nation.

The parties did deliver their case, and the leave side won.
However the leave side repeatedly assured it would not mean leaving the single market therefore not disabling trade. So the leave voters didn't get what they voted for.

 

[Brianbrewed]

copping all the flak

This isn't a WW2 comic

 

[foxy]

The parties did deliver their case, and the leave side won.
However the leave side repeatedly assured it would not mean leaving the single market therefore not disabling trade. So the leave voters didn't get what they voted for.

But surely the to and from's have the intelligence that the EU wasn't going to make it easy? Don't they.

This isn't a WW2 comic

Come on you can do better than that.

 

[stripeyjoe]

But you don't know that a referendum would have been held under Labour, that is speculation

Read their manifestos at the time, no mention of a referendum. As I said, the referendum was held to please the swivel eyed loons in the Tory party who had already brought down one of their leaders for not supporting leaving the EU.
I’m no EU fan boy, there’s a lot wrong with it, but would never vote to leave under a deal negotiated by the Tories, you know it’s going to turn into a race to the bottom **** show of deregulation and maximum profit extraction at the expense of people who earn their money by providing labour.

 

[Brianbrewed]

Come on you can do better than that.

I have had similar thoughts, reading any of your posts, relating to politics.