Massive Lager Head

[NobbiesShout]

Hope some of you could give me some help. I have been making lager kits for past year. Very little or no head on them all. Recently I've made Mangrove Jacks Pils & Festival adding at bottle time one carbonation drop per 500ml bottle. When i pour very gently from bottle, approx. 200 ml lager, into the pint glass it completely fills up and over the top with foam/head. My questions are is there any way I can stop this dramatic loss of lager prior to or during bottling (probably have less than 1/2 pint of lager when finished pouring) Also is there something I could add when brewing to reduce this head?
Thanks in advance.
Nobbie

 

[Cheshire Cat]

1 carb drop is fine so a few questions
1. How long did you ferment before bottling
2. What was the Final Specific Gravity at bottling.
3. Did you thoroughly clean and sanitise your bottles.
4. At what temperature and for how long did you ferment.
As for the latest batch chill and pour into a big jug first.

PS you should change your username to "Massive Lagerhead"

 

[NobbiesShout]

Thanks Cheshire Cat for your quick response.
1. 19 days Festival and 18 days MJ
2. OG 1044 and SG 1008
3. Thoroughly sanitised and cleaned bottles. My wife tells me I spend double the time cleaning than brewing
4. 21 degrees for both. Have a Coopers on at moment where I started at 12 degrees.
Regarding the last batch - so just pour 1 bottle into 2 pint jug and let it settle, would this be correct?
I have made 12 lagers, all different, and everyone has a tang taste - I have used campden tablet, no different? Also made ales with same tang taste and many stouts without tang taste?
Thanks again, not sure Massive Lagerhead would be correct. perhaps Massive ..................

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Thanks Cheshire Cat for your quick response.
1. 19 days Festival and 18 days MJ
2. OG 1044 and SG 1008
3. Thoroughly sanitised and cleaned bottles. My wife tells me I spend double the time cleaning than brewing
4. 21 degrees for both. Have a Coopers on at moment where I started at 12 degrees.
Regarding the last batch - so just pour 1 bottle into 2 pint jug and let it settle, would this be correct?
I have made 12 lagers, all different, and everyone has a tang taste - I have used campden tablet, no different? Also made ales with same tang taste and many stouts without tang taste?
Thanks again, not sure Massive Lagerhead would be correct. perhaps Massive ..................

With you on twang in kits, the only kits I've brewed recently are stouts and I think the strong flavour masks the twang. That's why I moved to all grain.
Regarding your process I can't fault it so maybe reduce the priming sugar by using a half tsp of either table or brewing sugar per bottle.

 

[NobbiesShout]

Thanks again for reply. Will use half tsp on one that is fermenting. Will keep trying but it seems kit beers may just be the problem. Haven't the space or time for grain, although I'm sure it may be the answer. Try few more if no change will stop lager brewing and continue with my wine, which is perfect.

 

[RustyV8]

Not that this helps with the massivehead issue, but on the priming topic i've tried the drops, those little measured teaspoons and batch priming and to be honest batch gives the best result every time.... easiest way to control your sugar content exactly and frankly the easiest to do also....

 

[Tanglefoot]

If you want to brew a decent kit lager best to
1. swap out the ale yeast and
2 use a proper lager yeast fermented with temperature control

I used MJ84 Bohemian, fermented in my fridge at 14c and dry hopped with Saaz.
This time of year you could find somewhere cold and do it without one,
though an inkbird & heat belt/pad that would be a good way to upgrade your set up, preferably with a fridge.

I think the twang you say you keep getting is just a result of brewing using sugar/dextrose, difficult to avoid with kits
and part of the appeal all grain is no longer using bags off the stuff.
You could try a partial mash and see if that improves things, all you need is a pan and grain bag.

 

[NobbiesShout]

Not that this helps with the massivehead issue, but on the priming topic i've tried the drops, those little measured teaspoons and batch priming and to be honest batch gives the best result every time.... easiest way to control your sugar content exactly and frankly the easiest to do also....

Thanks Rusty, like you tried all different types of sugar with no change and will go back and try again batch, reducing the amount as kindly stated by Cheshire Cat above.

 

[NobbiesShout]

If you want to brew a decent kit lager best to
1. swap out the ale yeast and
2 use a proper lager yeast fermented with temperature control

I used MJ84 Bohemian, fermented in my fridge at 14c and dry hopped with Saaz.
This time of year you could find somewhere cold and do it without one,
though an inkbird & heat belt/pad that would be a good way to upgrade your set up, preferably with a fridge.

I think the twang you say you keep getting is just a result of brewing using sugar/dextrose, difficult to avoid with kits
and part of the appeal all grain is no longer using bags off the stuff.
You could try a partial mash and see if that improves things, all you need is a pan and grain bag.

Thanks Tanglefoot, only used ale yeast way back at very start, have used many many larger yeast including liquid to no avail. Use Saaz hops and I only use brew fridge, using two at the moment with inkbirds. Have tried all sugars but still twang. Will try another few. Thanks again Tanglefoot.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

When i pour very gently from bottle, approx. 200 ml lager, into the pint glass it completely fills up and over the top with foam/head. My questions are is there any way I can stop this dramatic loss of lager prior to or during bottling (probably have less than 1/2 pint of lager when finished pouring) Also is there something I could add when brewing to reduce this head?

I'd first look at what's happening at the pouring stage - are you pouring the bottle properly? Hold the glass at 45 degrees and pour down the side of the glass, moving it to vertical when you run out of room.

What temperature is the beer? Too warm and CO2 will be less soluble and so more likely to come out of solution when you pour - the technical term for this kind of foaming is fobbing. The colder the beer, the less fobbing.

What kind of glass are you using? Branded lager glasses will have nucleation points designed to make CO2 come out of solution. Normal glassware doesn't, so if you're having problems with fobbing then use a glass without nucleation points.

Is the glass 'beer-clean'? Any crud on the glass will act as nucleation points and increase fobbing. This article is aimed at bars, but gives some good ways to test how clean your glass is :

https://content.kegworks.com/blog/beer-clean-glass
And as others have said, if you're bottle-conditioning then just use less sugar to get less CO2, but I'd try the above first.

 

[NobbiesShout]

I'd first look at what's happening at the pouring stage - are you pouring the bottle properly? Hold the glass at 45 degrees and pour down the side of the glass, moving it to vertical when you run out of room.

What temperature is the beer? Too warm and CO2 will be less soluble and so more likely to come out of solution when you pour - the technical term for this kind of foaming is fobbing. The colder the beer, the less fobbing.

What kind of glass are you using? Branded lager glasses will have nucleation points designed to make CO2 come out of solution. Normal glassware doesn't, so if you're having problems with fobbing then use a glass without nucleation points.

Is the glass 'beer-clean'? Any crud on the glass will act as nucleation points and increase fobbing. This article is aimed at bars, but gives some good ways to test how clean your glass is :

https://content.kegworks.com/blog/beer-clean-glass
And as others have said, if you're bottle-conditioning then just use less sugar to get less CO2, but I'd try the above first.

Thanks Northern_Brewer. Blows my mind how helpful everyone is trying to be. Pouring and cleaning should be fine, been a barman of and on for many years. Will try less sugar. Thanks so much again

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thanks Northern_Brewer. Blows my mind how helpful everyone is trying to be. Pouring and cleaning should be fine, been a barman of and on for many years. Will try less sugar. Thanks so much again

Apologies, didn't want to teach granny to suck eggs, it's always hard talking anonymously on a forum - but unless you're wildly overcarbing then fobbing is less to do with what happens in the brewery and more down to temperature, the pour and the glass. Whilst we're on the subject of carbonation, you may find this current thread of relevance :
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/draught-ale-from-a-bottle.97129/
One reason for twang can be old malt extract, particularly liquid malt extract, so it pays to make sure that kits are well within date. Or just go all-grain, it's really not hard, see : Have a go at simple AG

 

[NobbiesShout]

Apologies, didn't want to teach granny to suck eggs, it's always hard talking anonymously on a forum - but unless you're wildly overcarbing then fobbing is less to do with what happens in the brewery and more down to temperature, the pour and the glass. Whilst we're on the subject of carbonation, you may find this current thread of relevance :
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/draught-ale-from-a-bottle.97129/
One reason for twang can be old malt extract, particularly liquid malt extract, so it pays to make sure that kits are well within date. Or just go all-grain, it's really not hard, see : Have a go at simple AG

Absolutely no need to apologies, you guys have taken time out to help me. Fobbing has only been in the two lagers (Festival & Mangrove Jacks Pils). All my other lagers have been the opposite, totally no head. Temperature is steady in brewfridge, for 12 or so lagers using lager yeast 18-20 degrees. Recently I've been using 12 degrees with liquid lager yeast. I use spray malt. Thanks so much for the draught ale from a bottle thread and the wonderful simple AG one. Will give it a go in new year. Many thanks again. Nobbie

 

[Clint]

There was a chap who used to work with me who was a massive lager head...he would regularly drink 30 pints.

 

[NobbiesShout]

There was a chap who used to work with me who was a massive lager head...he would regularly drink 30 pints.

Per day or just at night time?

 

[Clint]

Depends sometimes I'm the day sometimes at night. Or a combination.
Needless to say he's f#((€%!

 

[Tanglefoot]

When I saw title.of thread I immediately thought of this... Ha ha

 

[NobbiesShout]

Depends sometimes I'm the day sometimes at night. Or a combination.
Needless to say he's f#((€%!

After 30 he's bound to be!

 

[NobbiesShout]

When I saw title.of thread I immediately thought of this... Ha ha

Super Tanglefoot and well remembered "Born Slippy"