Mashing at around 45°C Would it work?

[CraftySamurai]

Hey everyone, good evening.

I was on the phone earlier with a supplier of dried Koji who was helping me out with my koji beer recipe that I have been tweaking before the 2nd attempt and my updating the recipe discussion post on this forum. Anyway he told me the amylase enzymes that are in the koji work best below 50°c so something around 45°C would be acceptable if using during the mashing.

i would normally mash around 65°C. Could I successfully mash at 45°C if sparged after. Would I need to do a longer mash? Or should I forget about the koji in the mashing stage and use the whole lot in fermentation later (I would hold some back for that stage anyway)

my grain bill is
bohemian pilsner malt
caramalt
rice

Any knowledge on how a lower temp mash would work or not work would be much appreciated.

 

[aamcle]

Not well, enzymes are temperature sensitive and the ones that convert starch to sugars take a higher temperature.

If you is search you will find best temps for each enzyme.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hey everyone, good evening.

I was on the phone earlier with a supplier of dried Koji who was helping me out with my koji beer recipe that I have been tweaking before the 2nd attempt and my updating the recipe discussion post on this forum. Anyway he told me the amylase enzymes that are in the koji work best below 50°c so something around 45°C would be acceptable if using during the mashing.

i would normally mash around 65°C. Could I successfully mash at 45°C if sparged after. Would I need to do a longer mash? Or should I forget about the koji in the mashing stage and use the whole lot in fermentation later (I would hold some back for that stage anyway)

my grain bill is
bohemian pilsner malt
caramalt
rice

Any knowledge on how a lower temp mash would work or not work would be much appreciated.

I don't think it would work, CS, If I understand koji correctly, it contains a different enzyme that works well below 50C, but it's not amylase. If you wanted to make a western beer at that temperature, you might try mashing at 45C after having inoculated the mash with koji (koji-kin). An interesting experiment, but I'm not sure the end result would be like the same beer mashed with diastase, Certainly worth a try, though.

 

[CraftySamurai]

I don't think it would work, CS, If I understand koji correctly, it contains a different enzyme that works well below 50C, but it's not amylase. If you wanted to make a western beer at that temperature, you might try mashing at 45C after having inoculated the mash with koji (koji-kin). An interesting experiment, but I'm not sure the end result would be like the same beer mashed with diastase, Certainly worth a try, though.

Yeh I'm not entirely sure but I think I may end up omitting koji from the mash as the temps are too high and instead just rely on those esters being instilled at fermentation. Ie just a western mash as usual. I've only got koji rice as the spores are near impossible to come by cheap and timescales and experimentation would be expensive. I've read a few recipes and books as well as had a few discussions with sake enthusiasts and a few fellow brewers and thin the addition at fermentation.might yeild best results. Thanks for your input there's really not a lot written about people's findings and experiences of using koji in beers as far as I've seen.

 

[crescent city Mike]

When you talk about enzymes alone, there are other things to consider.
https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/mash-rests/
All sorts of things run through my mind on this as you're looking at two separate types of fermentation. I really can't wrap my mind around doing them together. Perhaps doing each alone and blending when complete?