Making a yeast starter?

[Kyral210]

Ok, I am getting ready to brew my barley wine, but I need a yeast starter. No biggy, I have the yeast and a jar of malt extract from Holland and Barrots. I have also calculated I need around 1.5 litres of starter for my batch.

Is it as simple as 'add enough malt extract to get a gravity of 1.04 to 1.5 litres of water, boil to 10 minutes, cool, add yeast, ferment for 2 days, chill, pour off 'beer', add wort to the starter, shake up, pour into fermenter'.

Or have I got to build the starter up bit by bit?

 

[evanvine]

That's just fine K, but why pour off the "beer"? :wha:

 

[Aleman]

That's just fine K, but why pour off the "beer"? :wha:

Because you are growing yeast not making beer . . .Pouring off the spent wort and adding fresh wort a couple of hours before pitching ensures a) The yeast is sound from smelling and tasting the spent wort, and b) it's active

I've posted repeatedly about the importance of making a yeast starter that is of a suitable size for the volume / gravity of beer being brewed, and just can't be arsed typing the same stuff again

If this is a barley wine then a 1.5L starter is just not big enough

 

[Ceejay]

5 litres of starter for a 23l batch.
5 litres of starter for a 23l batch.
5 litres of starter for a 23l batch.
5 litres of starter for a 23l batch.

Come on lads, we all know this! :lol:

 

[Kyral210]

If this is a barley wine then a 1.5L starter is just not big enough

Now thats just not true :

Its an Ale
OG = 1.104
10 litre batch

You need 4 million yeast cells for every point gravity per 5 gallons
Therefore 189 billion cells

150 billion cells per litre of starter

1.26 litres = 189 billion cells


If my maths is wrong please correct me and I will change my starter

 

[Aleman]

Well 184 billion but I wont argue over 5 billion

Now you don't say what sort of yeast it is as it varies for dry or liquid, but if you assume liquid Mr Malty pitching rate calculator reckons you can use a 2.6L starter provided you use 4 vials of yeast to make the starter (Without a starter you would need 11 vials) . . . If you use a bigger starter then you can use 6.4L with only 2 vials

I don't see where you get the 150 Billion cells per litre of starter from, it's not a figure I am familiar with.

And FWIW I reckon Mr Malty underestimates the amount of yeast required for strong ales

 

[Kyral210]

I have one smack pack propogator London Yeast http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=4

 

[Kyral210]

Just ran through Mr Malty, he said I need 1.65 Litres of a starter. Were you using US or UK gallons? Nevermind. I will create a yeast starter recipe in Beer Smith and then run with that. All good.

 

[Aleman]

Just ran through Mr Malty, he said I need 1.65 Litres of a starter. Were you using US or UK gallons? Nevermind. I will create a yeast starter recipe in Beer Smith and then run with that. All good.

But did you not see the bit that says you need 6 vials/smack packs for a starter that size

 

[evanvine]

Because you are growing yeast not making beer

Fine business Tony, I'm the last person to argue with you. :thumb:
It must be the scotts blood in me, but I'm not going to throw away perfectly good ethyl alcohol.
In the face of all good advice, I don't make a starter!
24 hrs before brewday I take my yeast (70ml) out of the freezer, and then pitch the culture directly into the wort.
Not failed yet.

 

[mr_spin]

Because you are growing yeast not making beer

Fine business Tony, I'm the last person to argue with you. :thumb:
It must be the scotts blood in me, but I'm not going to throw away perfectly good ethyl alcohol.
In the face of all good advice, I don't make a starter!
24 hrs before brewday I take my yeast (70ml) out of the freezer, and then pitch the culture directly into the wort.
Not failed yet.

with only 70ML yeast what is the lag time like?

 

[Kyral210]

But did you not see the bit that says you need 6 vials/smack packs for a starter that size

Well, here is what I am seeing...

 

[Aleman]

Because you are growing yeast not making beer

Fine business Tony, I'm the last person to argue with you. :thumb:
It must be the scotts blood in me, but I'm not going to throw away perfectly good ethyl alcohol.
In the face of all good advice, I don't make a starter!
24 hrs before brewday I take my yeast (70ml) out of the freezer, and then pitch the culture directly into the wort.
Not failed yet.

There is a world of difference between 'Getting away with it' (Or 'Being Lucky' as I prefer to call it) and 'Best Practice' (or doing it properly). As Chris White say in his book a couple of times. "An extract brewer that takes care to pitch the right amount of healthy yeast and ferment at the correct temperature, will make far superior beer to an all grain brewer that does not"

 

[Aleman]

But did you not see the bit that says you need 6 vials/smack packs for a starter that size

Well, here is what I am seeing...

Yes but is that viability correct. . . enter teh production date of your yeast into the date field and click the calculate viability from production date check box and you might be surprised . . . ( Admittedly I have the blooming thing set to remember my settings, so a 11 month (10 March 2010) gap from production to use may throw things out just a bit )

Personally when I brew a barley wine I make a smaller batch of Pale ale and use that as my starter, pitching the barley wine on the yeast cake. I think it is difficult to over pitch a strong ale

 

[Kyral210]

There is a world of difference between 'Getting away with it' (Or 'Being Lucky' as I prefer to call it) and 'Best Practice' (or doing it properly). As Chris White say in his book a couple of times. "An extract brewer that takes care to pitch the right amount of healthy yeast and ferment at the correct temperature, will make far superior beer to an all grain brewer that does not"

God knows I 'get away' with lots in brewing, but I am trying to learn more and to do it right. To think I started with a Youngs Kit and sugar, now I am doing yeast starters with my own recipes! Not all grain yet, but I will get there, one day...

 

[Kyral210]

DAM IT! I forgot to think about the manufacturing date of the yeast. Well, Does I have calculated that in and it now says I need 3.5 litres of starter! Is this right? I am using a smack pack if that makes any difference?