Liquor Treatment Calculator

[morebeer]

I know this is a big ask, :pray: but can someone help me with these calculations. I used the liquor treatment calculator above and downloaded the water analysis from my water suppliers website but I don't know whether I am using the calculator correctly? :hmm:

The information requires the following and based on the averages of the analysis:

Alkalinity = 139
Carbonate reduction method = I plan to boil my liquor and leave standing overnight, since I don't know what CRS means.
Ca = 99.9
Mg = 9.83
Na = 62.4
CO3 = 83.34
SO4 = 135
CI = 92

I am assuming volume to be treated is 33lt

If anybody is willing to advise I would really appreciate it

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[PD]

Sorry..I gave up. My tap water is drinkable so I stuck with adding half a campden tablet.

I couldn't get the correct details required from my water company.

 

[cnelsonplumber]

Hi

I think I can help with this. just need to save my settings, then I will put in the details from your water report and talk you through. It's a bit confusing to start with but once you get the hang of it ..........

 

[cnelsonplumber]

I know this is a big ask, :pray: but can someone help me with these calculations. I used the liquor treatment calculator above and downloaded the water analysis from my water suppliers website but I don't know whether I am using the calculator correctly? :hmm:

The information requires the following and based on the averages of the analysis:

Alkalinity = 139
Carbonate reduction method = I plan to boil my liquor and leave standing overnight, since I don't know what CRS means.
Ca = 99.9
Mg = 9.83
Na = 62.4
CO3 = 83.34
SO4 = 135
CI = 92

I am assuming volume to be treated is 33lt

If anybody is willing to advise I would really appreciate it

:

Is the alkalinity figure quoted as HC03 or CaC03 as it will make a difference to the additions of around 25%.

 

[morebeer]

CaC03 :party:

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[cnelsonplumber]

Firstly, the most simple, cheap and effective method of improving your water chemistry is to add ½ campden tablet to 25 Ltrs of liquor and give it a good stir (a bit more than half for your 33ltrs). Crushing it between two tea spoons is a good way of turning it back to a powder. This will deal with the Chlorine components and stop any medicinal flavours. :sick:

CRS is Carbonate Reducing Solution, trade name AMS. This is a blend of acids which change the ionic structure of the liquor and hence the PH of the mash which is used to improve extraction. Again give the liquor a good stir to evenly distribute the AMS. :thumb:

Gypsum is used to lower the PH and add for adding calcium where the water is low in sulphate.

Epsom salts can also be used to lower PH to a lesser extent.

Calcium Chloride is used to lower PH and add Calcium if the water is low in chlorides.

This is the very basics but hopefully it will help you understand why the calculator recommends various additions. There is a lot more info in the start of the treatment page which is worth a read.

Here goes with the calculator: :geek:

Ca 99.9
MG 9.83
Na 62.4
S04 135
CL 92

C03 0

HC03 0

CaC03 139

Total Vol 33Ltrs
Mash Vol 12 Ltrs

Beer Style General

CRS 20.6ml
Calcium Chloride to boiler 0.01 (everything else zero)


The above is based on a 12 Ltr mash volume which I’m guessing is about right; just change it if you are adding more or less liquor.

CRS additions aren’t likely to change much across the styles, but you will notice changes in the salts. As you can see from the above your water just needs 20ml CRS for this style.

Once you are familiar with the calculator, have a think about buying a Salifert kit to check the actual alkalinity of the water, as the water reports tend to be out of date and inaccurate sometimes. My water report says I have an alkalinity of 210; it is actually 180 when measured by titration.

I have rambled on a bit, so hope this helps. :

 

[morebeer]

Hi Chris your a star :clap:

I plan to get one of them kits asap.... although I did read some negative comments about their reliablity

But relying on the water companies tests is got to be a gamble since the tests shows in most cases one or two samples only taken, so not much of an average.

I am not sure whether I gave the correct calcium reading, as I took it from the long list of chemical parameters and not below the water hardness which gives the following: Ca (mg/l) =116, Calcium carbonate (mg/l) = 290, Degrees Clark ('c) = 20.184, Degrees French ('f) = 29, Degrees German ('dh) = 16.472, millimoles (mmol/l of Ca) =2.9.

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[cnelsonplumber]

290 looks like the figure you want and that makes your water very hard. Do you get a lot of scale in the kettle?

This is going to bump your use of AMS up to 47.8 ml for 33 ltrs liquor.#

If you are not sure about the water report then post a link so we can have a look at it.

 

[morebeer]

Hi Chris,

I have just downloaded the most recent report, the one I quoted you was Jan to Mar. I now have Jan to Jun. And when I looked at the 2011 report it was different again :!:

I hope this link works

http://waterquality.anglianwater.com/mergedreport.aspx

I don't suppose you could post a copy of your calculations from the Liquid Treatment Calculator, to see whether we are both coming up with the same numbers. I noticed that once you enter the alkalinity number, set the CRM to CRS and enter the Hardness number as CaCO3, it automatically puts the Ca, CO3 and SO4, which are different to the chemical parameters in the report. Do I change these to the chemical parameters or leave them as they have been calculated?

Thank you for your patients :wha:

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[cnelsonplumber]

I can't access the report from the link unfortunately as it is time expired. :sulk:

A quick look at Anglian's site and it needs a post code to access the report. If you would like to PM me with you post code, I will have a look. Sorry to say that I have to work now, so may be ove the weekend.

 

[cnelsonplumber]

I have pulled out a copy of Buckingham's water report for Jan to June 2012 and found the following:
Ca 96.1
Mg 9.57
Na 62.3
SO4 138
CaCO3 279.5

For a general beer style with 33ltr total liquor and 12 Ltr mash this gives a CRS addition of 45.9ml. Which is fairly close to the last calculation.

Your local water is hard so CRS is going to feature in your brewing. At under 50 pence for a treatment I wouldn't worry too much though.

One of the parameters on the report has a low sample rates ie of 2 samples! It might be worth emailing your local water company to find out why so low. I image it is because Calcium hasn't changed much over the last 10 years.

Good luck with the brew this weekend. Boiling the liquor will help by removing the temporary hardness until you get some CRS.

 

[morebeer]

Hi Chris, I am coming up with 20.46 CRS so doing something wrong!

:hmm:

 

[morebeer]

Hi Chris, Can you confirm whether I am starting the calculation correctly please?

I enter the following:

Alkalinity = 139
CRM set to CRS = 20
Hardness 279.5 set as CaCo3

This automatically sets the Ca to 111.92, Carbonate as CO3 as 83.34, SO4 as 135.85. All the rest i.e. Mg, Na and Cl stay empty. Do I change all of these to those given in the water report? and what would I set the Sulphate:Chloride ratio to? :hmm:

Sorry about my lack of intelligence.... when I left school 45 years ago, I could just about write my name! :sick:

I took delivery of the Salifert KH/Alk profi test kit today.... just got to work out how to use it now? Did I read that you did some video's on these subjects? If so, wher could I view them?

I decided not to brew this weekend, because I wanted to make sure my water qulaity was as good as I could get it, then I can blame all shortfalls on my lack of experience and not blame poor water quality. :drink:

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[cnelsonplumber]

Hi Neil

Are you using The forum water treatment calculator or one of the many other ones?

 

[morebeer]

I am not sure if you are refering to me as Neil..... my name is Ken! :thumb:

If you were..... I was using the one on Jim's site. Should I try using the one on this site? :hmm:

 

[morebeer]

I tried the one on this site and came up with CRS 79.6 :hmm:

 

[morebeer]

OK..... I think I have it :thumb:

I used the one on this forum and filled out all options except Carbonate (CO3) and Alkalinity as HO3 and came up with CRS 45.9 :clap:

Can you please confirm this is the way to go please?

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[tazuk]

hi was looking at this one why wot is best one and easy to use as you seen my ling to southern trent with my post code cheers neil

Hi Neil

Are you using The forum water treatment calculator or one of the many other ones?

 

[cnelsonplumber]

Sorry Ken, I got you mixed up with taz.

The forum calculator is one of the easiest to use by far :clap: and also the one that I use. It will save your results, so if you need to change your mash vol for example, the there is no need to fill all the other bits in.

@tazuk. Neil, STWA water chemistry is still elusive, also be careful as they quote a figure for Manganese (Mn) which is easy to mix up with Magnesium (Mg). I will have a look and see if I can find the reply when I asked for my local water report. Like you, I could not find all the info on line.

 

[morebeer]

Chris....Thank you for your patience and much valued assistance :clap: I now feel comfortable with using this forum's water calculator :party: ...... Except ....... now I plan to use the Salifert to check my alkalinity each time I do a brew..... how will it effect the use of the calculator? HELP :hmm: