Liquid Yeast - am I missing something?

[AnimatedGIF]

Yeaterday I brewed a Red Triangle Draught Bass AG kit from The Malt Miller. It is my first time using liquid yeast. It has been stored in my fridge and I pitched as per the instructions (allow to come to 20 degrees slowly, mix thoroughly, open with sanitized scissors, no starter).
When I have used dry yeast as I have in all my previous brews, the morning after pitching there is a thick krausen formed and some air lock activity. I know air lock activity is not an indicator of anything happeneing, but the wort looks like it did before I pitched, except there is no froth from the oxygenation. I expected liquid yeast would get going faster. Have I missed something? Maybe I have a dud pack of yeast?
(WLP023 Burton Ale yeast, wort at 20 degrees).
Whilst not wishing to appear impatient, I am hoping to find out if I need to get out my pack of dried Notty to save wasting an entire brewday

 

[Bolsover Brewer]

Patience is a virtue. It isn't like a Fermentis S04, turn your back and it starts fermenting. Give it 24 to 35 hours, White Labs yeasts are pretty reliable. Just be sure in your own mind you have oxygenated the wort enough.

 

[jceg316]

Yeaterday I brewed a Red Triangle Draught Bass AG kit from The Malt Miller. It is my first time using liquid yeast. It has been stored in my fridge and I pitched as per the instructions (allow to come to 20 degrees slowly, mix thoroughly, open with sanitized scissors, no starter).
When I have used dry yeast as I have in all my previous brews, the morning after pitching there is a thick krausen formed and some air lock activity. I know air lock activity is not an indicator of anything happeneing, but the wort looks like it did before I pitched, except there is no froth from the oxygenation. I expected liquid yeast would get going faster. Have I missed something? Maybe I have a dud pack of yeast?
(WLP023 Burton Ale yeast, wort at 20 degrees).
Whilst not wishing to appear impatient, I am hoping to find out if I need to get out my pack of dried Notty to save wasting an entire brewday

I find a well aerated wort usually leads to lower lag times. But that being said, how old is the yeast? Also do you rehydrate your dry yeast before pitching?

 

[AnimatedGIF]

Patience is a virtue. It isn't like a Fermentis S04, turn your back and it starts fermenting. Give it 24 to 35 hours, White Labs yeasts are pretty reliable. Just be sure in your own mind you have oxygenated the wort enough.

Tha ks for the S04 comparison, it's useful to know. I emailed TMM and they said the same. Thanks.
It was well oxygenated, at least as much as I normally would.

I find a well aerated wort usually leads to lower lag times. But that being said, how old is the yeast? Also do you rehydrate your dry yeast before pitching?

Not sure how old the yeast is. BB Apr 2022 though.
I never rehydrate dried yeast, no.

 

[MickDundee]

Not sure how old the yeast is. BB Apr 2022 though.
I never rehydrate dried yeast, no.

It’s only a month away from its use by so it’s 5 months since manufacture and the cell count would be lower than if it was manufactured last month for example. It’ll be fine but slower to get going.

It’s usually recommended to make a yeast starter with liquid yeast to make sure you have an optimal cell count, especially those close to their use by date or for the overseas based yeast producers (because you also can’t guarantee the conditions during transit from the country of origin to the U.K even though the manufacturer themselves and the U.K. retailers will treat the yeast properly at either end). I’ll wing it if the yeast is only a month or so post-production but usually make a small starter for anything older.

 

[jceg316]

Tha ks for the S04 comparison, it's useful to know. I emailed TMM and they said the same. Thanks.
It was well oxygenated, at least as much as I normally would.


Not sure how old the yeast is. BB Apr 2022 though.
I never rehydrate dried yeast, no.

That's interesting, I've noticed if I don't rehydrate my dry yeast there is a long lag time. Anyway, I echo everything @MickDundee says in that a starter is almost always a sensible idea with liquid yeast. Your beer will probably be fine though.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

It’s only a month away from its use by so it’s 5 months since manufacture and the cell count would be lower than if it was manufactured last month for example. It’ll be fine but slower to get going.

It’s usually recommended to make a yeast starter with liquid yeast to make sure you have an optimal cell count, especially those close to their use by date or for the overseas based yeast producers (because you also can’t guarantee the conditions during transit from the country of origin to the U.K even though the manufacturer themselves and the U.K. retailers will treat the yeast properly at either end). I’ll wing it if the yeast is only a month or so post-production but usually make a small starter for anything older.

Cool, thanks Mick, I'll be sure to do that next time. Good to have that sort of information.

That's interesting, I've noticed if I don't rehydrate my dry yeast there is a long lag time. Anyway, I echo everything @MickDundee says in that a starter is almost always a sensible idea with liquid yeast. Your beer will probably be fine though.

Cool, cheers, I'll leave this one alone and be patient, and shall make a starter next time.

 

[An Ankoù]

Yeaterday I brewed a Red Triangle Draught Bass AG kit from The Malt Miller. It is my first time using liquid yeast. It has been stored in my fridge and I pitched as per the instructions (allow to come to 20 degrees slowly, mix thoroughly, open with sanitized scissors, no starter).
When I have used dry yeast as I have in all my previous brews, the morning after pitching there is a thick krausen formed and some air lock activity. I know air lock activity is not an indicator of anything happeneing, but the wort looks like it did before I pitched, except there is no froth from the oxygenation. I expected liquid yeast would get going faster. Have I missed something? Maybe I have a dud pack of yeast?
(WLP023 Burton Ale yeast, wort at 20 degrees).
Whilst not wishing to appear impatient, I am hoping to find out if I need to get out my pack of dried Notty to save wasting an entire brewday

I've always made up an active starter before pitching liquid yeasts. Mainly because mine are always out of date by the time I get round to using them. I shall use up the ones I've got in the fridge over the course of the year and then stick to dried yeasts, which I find excellent these days. Once a dried yeast has been cropped for re-use, it has become a liquid yeast, and the more generations it goes through, the more it becomes a house strain by adapting to your particular environment.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I've always made up an active starter before pitching liquid yeasts. Mainly because mine are always out of date by the time I get round to using them. I shall use up the ones I've got in the fridge over the course of the year and then stick to dried yeasts, which I find excellent these days. Once a dried yeast has been cropped for re-use, it has become a liquid yeast, and the more generations it goes through, the more it becomes a house strain by adapting to your particular environment.

I was revisiting dried yeast on TMM earlier. There is certainly a wide range of choice. I think they're better for me as I don't often get to plan far enough in advance whether or not I'll be able to brew on a given day. I usually decide on the day.

 

[MickDundee]

I was revisiting dried yeast on TMM earlier. There is certainly a wide range of choice. I think they're better for me as I don't often get to plan far enough in advance whether or not I'll be able to brew on a given day. I usually decide on the day.

I use dry yeast probably 95% of the time. I tend to just grab a brew day when I can (I work full time and have 2 primary school age kids) so l would end up keeping liquid yeast in the fridge for months.

The only style I’ll consistently use liquid on is English bitter because I’ve not found a dry yet that comes close to some of the liquid alternatives; I’ll also sometimes buy a liquid lager yeast if I know I’ll be brewing soon - 2 sachets of dry costs about the same as one liquid and there’s a much wider range.

 

[An Ankoù]

I was revisiting dried yeast on TMM earlier. There is certainly a wide range of choice. I think they're better for me as I don't often get to plan far enough in advance whether or not I'll be able to brew on a given day. I usually decide on the day.

I'd seriously recommend you go to CML. They have a massive range of dried yeasts and I haven't had a bad one yet.
Forgot to say, they're a fraction of the price and massively discounted if you buy 10 or 20 sachets.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I will second cml great yeast good choice and hops, and a great company to deal with, a quick plug here their ag kits are very good

 

[Harbey]

I get all my hops, yeast and speciality grain from CML and never had an issue.
Regarding yeast, I just sprinkle dried yeast on top of the wort these days. I've tried liquid, dry, starter, no starter, rehydrated etc. and can't say I find much difference for the majority of what I brew (I don't do Belgian).

 

[Sandimas]

All yeasts have different start and finish times, even the dried ones. My record with S-04 is 2.5 hours to get the airlock bubbling, some other yeasts can take a day or two to get going. Some of the MJ yeasts seem to have quite a long ferment tail and go beyond the usual 2 weeks.

I've now got 3 or 4 favourites that I've used many times and I've learned the characteristics of, all of which are quite different. I'm surprised they don't put this info in the description.

I must try CML again, I did use them a few years ago but wasn't impressed as I bottle most my brews and their yeasts didn't compact very well in bottles, leading to yeasty cloudy beers when poured.

 

[dmtaylor]

Dried yeast stores almost forever reliably; no starter required.

Liquid yeast stores for a very short time and is very unreliable; starter is always strongly recommended.

That's it, in a nutshell.

 

[MickDundee]

I must try CML again, I did use them a few years ago but wasn't impressed as I bottle most my brews and their yeasts didn't compact very well in bottles, leading to yeasty cloudy beers when poured.

I found their original “base” yeasts very hit and miss - the Kolsch and Cali Common ones were excellent but I didn’t like their American Pale and Real Ale yeasts at all. I also heard several stories about the saison yeast stalling which I’ve never experienced with Belle Saison or MJ M29.

Their newer “premium” yeasts have all been very good so far. The “Five” is just repackaged US-05 I believe, the only beer I’ve made with it acted exactly the same as US05 anyway, the experience I had with Pia was very similar although it took a bit longer to drop clear, and the Hell appears to be behaving very well in my Helles (although it’s still lagering so I’ve not tasted the finished beer yet).

 

[DavidDetroit]

I've read about long lag times and how normal that is. In my experience, I've never had a batch take longer than ten hours to get going. If it were me, I would have pulled the trigger and added dry. Not that that is the correct action.
@AnimatedGIF
Curious as to how it's going?

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I've read about long lag times and how normal that is. In my experience, I've never had a batch take longer than ten hours to get going. If it were me, I would have pulled the trigger and added dry. Not that that is the correct action.
@AnimatedGIF
Curious as to how it's going?

Exactly 48 hours from pitching, and no sign of any activity (before anyone says, I know airlock activity is not a proxy for rate of fermentation That said, it is an airtight FV), no krausen. My biggest worry is that I am patient, leave it ages, then the wort gets infected before I get a chance to do anything about it.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Chuck some dry yeast in.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Exactly 48 hours from pitching, and no sign of any activity (before anyone says, I know airlock activity is not a proxy for rate of fermentation That said, it is an airtight FV), no krausen. My biggest worry is that I am patient, leave it ages, then the wort gets infected before I get a chance to do anything about it.

Plus one on the above. I wouldn't wait any longer.