Leaving StarSan/ChemSan in a corny?

[stripeyjoe]

What is the hive view on leaving a corny keg full of StarSan or ChemSan after cleaning it out? Would it attack the stainless steel or silicon hose on a floating dip tube if left in the keg for a while (month or two)?
I was thinking of mixing up 19l of ChemSan and leaving in my freshly cleaned out Corny in prep for my next brew when I would use the fermentation to push out the ChemSan into another corny, then leave it in that one until the next brew etc. I tend to have a gap of 1-2 months between brews, depending on how thirsty I am!

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Not sure about that but if it helps, I used to store my chemsan in a 5L stainless steel jug that I used to fill up my spray bottle. After a couple of weeks in there it gets a thick slimy coating at the bottom, not pleasant. Other people's experiences may vary though obviously.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Ive had no issues leaving star san in my fermenter for a couple or three weeks. Give it a good shake every now and again to bring the settled white residue back into solution. Then pour out and pitch wort straight in on next brew day. No issues whatsoever.

Think Chemsan is different though. I did this with my Brewzilla and after about 2 weeks it left a hard white residue which was a pain to remove. Not sure if this residue is harmful in anyway but I just wanted to remove it.

I don't use chemsan anymore, and use PBW and tend not to leave that in the vessel for much more than 24 hours or so before rinsing and replacing with Star san.

 

[The Baron]

I leave about 1 litre of Starsan in my Cornies and just shake them every so often as well as before emptying before use same as Hoppyscotty, never had a problem and never had a infection

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Ive had no issues leaving star san in my fermenter for a couple or three weeks. Give it a good shake every now and again to bring the settled white residue back into solution. Then pour out and pitch wort straight in on next brew day. No issues whatsoever.

Think Chemsan is different though. I did this with my Brewzilla and after about 2 weeks it left a hard white residue which was a pain to remove. Not sure if this residue is harmful in anyway but I just wanted to remove it.

I don't use chemsan anymore, and use PBW and tend not to leave that in the vessel for much more than 24 hours or so before rinsing and replacing with Star san.

Must be a chemsan issue I guess then. I'm going back to starsan after this has gone, I don't like it.

 

[phildo79]

What is the hive view on leaving a corny keg full of StarSan or ChemSan after cleaning it out? Would it attack the stainless steel or silicon hose on a floating dip tube if left in the keg for a while (month or two)?
I was thinking of mixing up 19l of ChemSan and leaving in my freshly cleaned out Corny in prep for my next brew when I would use the fermentation to push out the ChemSan into another corny, then leave it in that one until the next brew etc. I tend to have a gap of 1-2 months between brews, depending on how thirsty I am!

I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are suggesting and I have been doing the same this past 12 months. However I recently had a look at the starsan in one of my kegs and it didn't look "right". So I chucked it. Now here is a question that some more learned folk might know the answer to.

Scenario 1 - fill cleaned keg with starsan and push out with co2 to purge and prep the keg for the next batch.
Scenario 2 - only put a pint of starsan into a cleaned keg and swish it around before pushing it out and venting the keg to remove oxygen.

Question - which uses more co2?

 

[The Baron]

Negligible but I would say option 1 would use slightly more if you are going to fully pressure option 2.
Me personally I put a litre of Starsan in swirl it around and leave it without using gas. When ready for use I just empty do my normal prep procedure of putting in a kettle of boiling water lid it and swirl and leave for 15 mins, I then add Starsan again and swirl then empty and keg the beer.
I only add gas once the corny is full of beer and vent the last air out 3 or 4 times. I have never bothered with putting co2 into the keg before filling which I have found ok as long as you are not splashing the beer around and never had oxidation and in the current climate (possible CO2 shortage) I will be sticking with that. Everyone to their own but I just have a good procedure that works for me and do not become anal about it.
The only Caveat is maybe when doing a NEIPA for some brewers

 

[stripeyjoe]

Scenario 1 - fill cleaned keg with starsan and push out with co2 to purge and prep the keg for the next batch.
Scenario 2 - only put a pint of starsan into a cleaned keg and swish it around before pushing it out and venting the keg to remove oxygen.

For me I plan to do 1. using the CO2 produced by pressure fermentation to move the ChemSan from one keg to the next, I will then have a sterilised keg purged with CO2 sitting at the same pressure as the FV, can then do a simple closed transfer using gravity by releasing a bit of pressure in the key and then connecting the gas out to the gas in of the FV.

 

[Victor Churchill]

What sort of FV and connections do you need to have for that scenario? (I've just got my first keg, moving up from a simple buckets-and-bottles scenario)

 

[scomet]

Starsan will attack certain 'synthetic rubbers' if left soaking for too long, others it has no effect. I think silicon hose is one of them but slowly! It will dissolve certain rubber gloves in a week, I was shocked....

 

[LeeH]

I’ve leave it in for months and months, stays fresh and first not harm the keg. I do use DI water if that makes any odds.

 

[stripeyjoe]

What sort of FV and connections do you need to have for that scenario?

I use an all rounder FV and Corny kegs.

That’s the set up at the beginning of the brew, have it set to 0 psi for the first few days and then let the pressure build up to 10-15 psi.
To transfer I just connect the two liquid posts together and release some pressure from the Corny. Once the beer starts transferring I connect the two gas posts together.

 

[stripeyjoe]

Think Chemsan is different though. I did this with my Brewzilla and after about 2 weeks it left a hard white residue which was a pain to remove.

Oh, that doesn’t sound good! Maybe I should test it out first on a stainless steel milk jug or similar.

 

[The Baron]

I think what you have to remember safe as Starsan is it is a acid albeit a mild version when diluted (be careful with concentrated Starsan though)so prolonged contact with most surfaces it will react but generally safe with good quality Stainless Steel

 

[Rento]

For what it’s worth, I usually clean out keg with water, and a brush, maybe some sodium per-carbonate if it looks dirty, rinse well and then fill with a litre or so of starsan and pressurise with a standard air compressor. Shake, leave for 10 minutes shake and then pour out via a post top tap Into my starsan bottle which I usually refresh every 3 months or sooner depending on how often I clean my beer lines. I’ll then make sure there’s still some pressure in the keg and when I need it just open and fill. I’ve never had an issue, prob done that about 10 times per keg.

 

[Rento]

Something I have learned the hard way…don’t spill starsan on a kitchen worktop as it etches if you don’t wash it immediately as it’s very caustic when undiluted!

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

What is the hive view on leaving a corny keg full of StarSan or ChemSan after cleaning it out? Would it attack the stainless steel or silicon hose on a floating dip tube if left in the keg for a while (month or two)?
I was thinking of mixing up 19l of ChemSan and leaving in my freshly cleaned out Corny in prep for my next brew when I would use the fermentation to push out the ChemSan into another corny, then leave it in that one until the next brew etc. I tend to have a gap of 1-2 months between brews, depending on how thirsty I am!

An FAQ on Five Star's website says:

How long is Star San good for once it’s mixed into a solution?

Star San is an EPAs registered sanitizer and must be used immediately. We do not recommend using it if has been in solution longer than an hour.

This may be to comply with FDA rules and regulations, so you may want to listen to/read some of the many interviews out there with the company's founder Charlie Talley who has a lot to say on his products that you won't find on the label or website.

Many people (me included for a long time) seem to think Starsan has a long shelf life when mixed and I can only think the notion had come from one of these interviews.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@phildo79

Don't care how much CO2 it uses if it's ferment CO2.
But I do know that if I push the starsan out with ferment CO2 and then flush with ferment CO2 before disconnecting there is going to be very little O2 left behind in that keg. Wheras a shake and purge runs risk of more oxygen in the keg.

Many people say that if the pH is in the correct range then the Starsan is good to go.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

@phildo79

Many people say that if the pH is in the correct range then the Starsan is good to go.

With so much conflicting information about the mixing of Starsan and mention of ph levels of the water used to mix it with was a bit vague, I decided to call 5 Star to get a definitive answer.

The person I spoke to said that with regard to using hard water with Star San, cloudiness is indeed down to ph levels. The effect it will have? Cloudy Star San. That's all. No degradation in efficacy. Just that you can't see through it.

 

[Rento]

Thanks, that’s a brilliant interview, long but very informative. It pretty much verified my understanding of starsan.

Starsan interview