Leadership Debate

[Baldbrewer]

I just love the headlines this morning!

• Rishi does a U-turn on VAT!
• Liz threatens to make strikes illegal! …
• and they both promise a “Thatcher” type of Leadership!

Oh joy! In the meantime, whilst the Tory Party chooses an unelected Prime Minister, the UK suffers raging inflation, rapidly rising energy bills, strikes by public workers, massive poverty, war in Europe, natural disasters etc!

I swear to God you couldn’t make it up if you tried!
:hat:

You would almost think it was being orchestrated by foreign powers to destabilize the country but they are probably thinking "they don't need our help!"
If somebody had told me 2 years ago this would be the state of our country now I would have laughed!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

At the end of the day, even with a change of ruling party, it will be the same feces by a different species

I have a horrible feeling you are right.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

You would almost think it was being orchestrated by foreign powers to destabilize the country but they are probably thinking "they don't need our help!"
If somebody had told me 2 years ago this would be the state of our country now I would have laughed!

It’s been 12 years in the making.

 

[531Man]

I just love the headlines this morning!

• Rishi does a U-turn on VAT!
• Liz threatens to make strikes illegal! …
• and they both promise a “Thatcher” type of Leadership!

Oh joy! In the meantime, whilst the Tory Party chooses an unelected Prime Minister, the UK suffers raging inflation, rapidly rising energy bills, strikes by public workers, massive poverty, war in Europe, natural disasters etc!

I swear to God you couldn’t make it up if you tried!
:hat:

I'm not trying to be contentious here, just to make clear for some others (not you I'm sure Dutto) who seem to be under the misconception that the UK has a Presidential electorial system to choose our PM.
We are no different from any other country.
Our PM, in common with most other democratic countries, is the leader of the party in power. (systems like Germany excepted, whose current PM or Chancellor as they are titled, happens not to be the party leader).
There is no popular vote anywhere in the world (I'm prepared to be shot down in flames here) directly for their PM.
That vote would be for a President (who then often directly appoints their country's PM!).

 

[chrissyr63]

Now Rishi has blinked first with his vat cut will the tory member king makers be more or less likely to support him? They want tax cuts but do they want someone who changes with the wind?
On hang on they love BJ!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

do they want someone who changes with the wind?

And who was fined for his part in partygate.

 

[alfajerry]

I'm not trying to be contentious here, just to make clear for some others (not you I'm sure Dutto) who seem to be under the misconception that the UK has a Presidential electorial system to choose our PM.
We are no different from any other country.
Our PM, in common with most other democratic countries, is the leader of the party in power. (systems like Germany excepted, whose current PM or Chancellor as they are titled, happens not to be the party leader).
There is no popular vote anywhere in the world (I'm prepared to be shot down in flames here) directly for their PM.
That vote would be for a President (who then often directly appoints their country's PM!).

Exactly, even if Labour were in power we would still have what people are describing as an unelected PM.
It's not a trick by the 'evil Tories'

 

[RichardM]

Exactly, even if Labour were in power we would still have what people are describing as an unelected PM.
It's not a trick by the 'evil Tories'

To quote Johnson when Brown took over from Blair
"The whole thing is unbelievable. As I write these words, Gordon Brown is still holed up in Downing Street. He is like some illegal settler in the Sinai desert, lashing himself to the radiator, or like David Brent haunting The Office in that excruciating episode when he refuses to acknowledge that he has been sacked. Isn’t there someone – the Queen’s Private Secretary, the nice policeman on the door of No 10 – whose job it is to tell him that the game is up?"

https://www.boris-johnson.com/2010/05/10/gordon-brown-still-in-downing-street/

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Rishi Sunak vows to take 4p off income tax​

By Kathryn Snowdon & James Gregory
BBC News
5 hours ago

Rishi Sunak has said he will cut the basic rate of income tax from 20% to 16% by the end of the next parliament if he becomes prime minister.
This would amount to a 20% tax reduction, he said - the "largest cut to income tax in 30 years".
But supporters of his Tory rival Liz Truss have accused the ex-chancellor of a U-turn on the issue and said that people cannot wait for tax cuts.
Conservative Party members will start receiving ballot papers later.
The winner of the leadership contest will be announced on 5 September, with Mr Sunak and Ms Truss competing for the No 10 job.
Mr Sunak said the policy is part of his "radical" tax vision, but it builds on his previously-announced 1p cut to income tax in April 2024.
He said he will take a further 3p off by the end of the next parliament, which could be as late as December 2029.
Supporters of Ms Truss said she would "cut taxes in seven weeks, not seven years", as she has pledged to scrap April's National Insurance rise, cancel a planned corporation tax rise and temporarily suspend green levies on energy bills.

'Controlling inflation before cutting taxes'​

In announcing his latest tax policy, Mr Sunak emphasised the need to control inflation before cutting taxes, adding that doing so now would make the situation worse and "endanger people's mortgages".
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I want to make sure that we can pay for it, I want to make sure that we can do it alongside growing the economy."
He said that his income tax cut pledge was "entirely consistent" with his campaign so far and denied that his plan was aimed solely to boost support for his campaign.
"I don't think embarking on a spree of excessive borrowing at a time when inflation and interest rates are already on the rise would be wise," Mr Sunak said.
Taxes have dominated the Tory leadership race, with the candidates clashing during the debates.
Last week, Ms Truss said tax rises brought in by Mr Sunak would lead to a recession - but Mr Sunak told the foreign secretary that her tax cut plan would "tip millions of people into misery" and cost the Conservatives the next election.


Full article -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62373675

 

[Dutto]

Here are the political headlines from some of today’s newspapers; they seem to be mostly about who backs Liz Truss and her plans.

Tory leadership race Mordaunt backs Truss … (Guardian)

Truss is the candidate of hope, declares Mordaunt … (Daily Telegraph)

Liz: I’ll halt junk food tax … (Daily Mail)

Truss: I’m real deal on tax … (Daily Express)

Mordaunt comes out for Truss as leadership gap narrows … (The Times)

Truss to cut civil service pay in poorer areas as part of war on ‘Whitehall Waste’ … (Financial Times)

Liz Truss steps up war on workers, unions and public sector during hustings event … (Daily Mirror)

The Times is the only one to note that the gap between Truss and Sunak is narrowing. This begs the question:

“Is the gap really narrowing or is it just wishful thinking by The Times?”

We should know on 5th September!

 

[Brewnaldo]

If ever anyone was in any doubt about the democratic deficit faced by Scots, or the prevalent atmosphere of disrespect we face, they need only look at the comments made by Liz Truss, which were designed by her to appeal to the braying mob from whom she seeks validation.

Pure disrespect towards the Parliament and elected leader of this country, and by extension, its electorate. Not an isolated incident by any means. But for those with so much to say about the value of the "union", maybe just try them shoes on for a minute , and try to think objectively about why some of us, even those of us who are not blood and soil nationalists, might see separation as the least worst option to hand over to the next generation.

 

[Dutto]

We have all seen the Tory Leadership race of fantasy economics unfold in front of our eyes.

(This is where the contenders have made more than £200 billion worth of unfunded spending commitments! This is more than the annual budget of the NHS; and without a word from either Candidate on how it'll be paid for.)

Today we have:

• Both candidates attacking Labour in Wales. (Wales being where they are supposed to answer questions.)
• Javid backing Truss.
• “Security Scare” over delivery of Tory Leadership Ballot Papers!

Maybe the last one is ‘cos Boris’s name was (or wasn’t) on them?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Former chancellor Sajid Javid has backed Liz Truss to become the next Conservative leader, calling for urgent tax cuts in an attack on her rival Rishi Sunak's economic plans.
Mr Javid, who withdrew his own bid to be leader last month before voting began, said Mr Sunak's plans could make the UK a "middle-income economy".
He said Ms Truss was best placed to rise to "the challenges of our age".
His endorsement came ahead of the latest leadership hustings in Wales.
Mr Sunak and Ms Truss are vying to win over Conservative Party members, whose votes will determine which of them will become the next Tory leader and British prime minister.
The party's roughly 160,000 members started receiving ballots this week, with the result due on 5 September, when Prime Minister Boris Johnson will leave office.

Wednesday's hustings event in Cardiff marks the first time either candidate has visited Wales since the leadership contest began.
Much of their debates have focused on tax policy, with Ms Truss vowing to scrap a planned rise in National Insurance, while Mr Sunak has said he would cut taxes "responsibly" once inflation had come down.
It has been a mixed few days on the campaign trail for Ms Truss after she received backing from former rival Penny Mordaunt but then was forced to scrap plans to link public sector pay to local living costs following a backlash. She said her plan had been "misrepresented".
But Mr Javid's endorsement gives her campaign another boost and means she now has the backing of five of the original 10 candidates who were nominated for the leadership.
Writing in the Times newspaper, Mr Javid said "tax cuts now are essential", arguing the "circumstances we are now in require a new approach" to economic policy.
Mr Javid, who directly preceded Mr Sunak as chancellor, warned that the UK risked "sleepwalking into a big-state, high-tax, low-growth, social democratic model which risks us becoming a middle-income economy by the 2030s".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62410239

 

[Rodcx500z]

It's all hogwash ignor it and get on with life, it's very short you know

 

[Dutto]

That may be what Javid is saying now in The Times, (i.e. “tax cuts now are essential" and "the circumstances we are now in require a new approach".) but please remember that he was a Minister in Boris’s Cabinet before he resigned! (Or “Stabbed Boris in the back.” if you prefer.)

Also, has Javid now convinced Truss to do a U-Turn? Even Rishi wanted to know where Truss was going to get her money from!

“Chaos!” is probably the word that best describes this whole debacle!

 

[An Ankoù]

Truss the Cheesemonger is a Yorkshire lass. She'll do us proud.
In truth I'd have more confidence in Philomena Cunk, whom she resembles a bit. But even so.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=ph...i=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpbW7JRu0Q

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Summary​

1. Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss are setting out their stalls in front of Tory party members at a hustings event in Cardiff
2. The pair have given their opening pitches - Sunak says he is the person who can win the Tories a fifth election
3. Truss says she has a bold plan to increase economic growth, first by ditching all EU laws still in place by 2023
4. Sunak is first to answer questions - and is asked if he could have been clearer on taxes
5. Meanwhile, in a boost for Truss, former health secretary Sajid Javid has thrown his support behind her
6. Team Truss welcomes his support, saying that it signals that "Liz is bringing the party together"
7. Sunak says he has the "broader support" from MPs and is "confident" he can bring party members onto his side

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62406684

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Backing of former health secretary comes as new poll finds Rishi Sunak is trailing by 32 points in leadership contest

The two candidates to be the UK’s next prime minister are launching themselves into another live battle of arguments in the latest hustings.

Liz Truss went into the event in Cardiff boosted by two surveys giving her huge leads as well as the backing of Sajid Javid.

Former health secretary Mr Javid hit out at Mr Sunak, saying his plans for the economy would lead Britain “sleepwalking into a high-tax, low-growth” economy.

In The Times, he argued that Ms Truss had the “willingness to challenge the status quo”.

The foreign secretary won a 34-percentage point lead over Mr Sunak in a YouGov poll of party members, before a survey for the ConservativeHome website put her 32 ahead.

The ConservativeHome poll of 1,003 Tory members found 58 per cent backed the foreign secretary, while 26 backed Mr Sunak

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/truss-sunak-tory-leadership-debate-live-b2137592.html

 

[Brianbrewed]

Really good analysis of the Tory leadership contest and Keir Starmers leadership, from the Guardians politics podcast

Britain’s not got political talent – Politics Weekly UK

 

[user 42983]

Truss the Cheesemonger is a Yorkshire lass. She'll do us proud.
In truth I'd have more confidence in Philomena Cunk, whom she resembles a bit. But even so.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=ph...i=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpbW7JRu0Q

Truss is not a Yorkshire lass, she only spent her secondary school years there! She was born in Oxford before moving to Paisley, then Leeds before returning to Oxford for uni!
But do agree that I also have no confidence in her or Sunak, and more so Boris!