Lallemand London Ale yeast discontinued

[sifty]

I've used this a couple of times and really like the outcome on an English bitter. I noticed it seems to have been discontinued so am looking for a similar dry yeast for an easy to brew ale.

Substitutions online seem to be:
(liquid)
* White Labs WLP005 British Ale
* Wyeast 1187 Ringwood
* Bluestone London
(dry)
* Fermentis S04 Ale (yuck)
* Mangrove Jack's M36 Liberty Bell


Lallemand London characteristics are:
65-72% attenuation
Low flocculation
18-22 deg C
12% ABV

Despite the low flocculation every beer I've used this in has been crystal clear, gone off like a rocket, and allowed the malt to shine, with very slight fruitiness.

I really just want a simple dry yeast I can keep in the fridge, a single pack will do for low ABV bitters. Approx half the price of a liquid yeast too...

Any suggestions?
I can't use S04, always find an off flavour with this until it's aged a few months.
MJ M36 looks promising but never used it.
Maybe Lallemand Nottingham?

 

[sifty]

This is the one, pic taken during last brew...

 

[Sadfield]

That's a shame.

I would have thought Windsor at its lower temperature range would be the most suitable replacement, as it shares London's inability to metabolize maltotriose. Unlike the other dry alternatives mentioned.

 

[stubrewworx]

Yep Windsor sounds like the obvious replacement. I have 2 brews conditioning and fermenting. I'll try remember feedback the outcome.

 

[sifty]

Thanks, will look into it. Seems like a slightly fruitier version, similar attenuation. Readily available here too.

Wonder why Windsor never came up in my searching?
Be interested to hear of anyone's experience with it...

 

[Sadfield]

Better suited to low ABV Bitters than London in my opinion. London is better if you want more hop forward beers, but with low attenuation.

 

[The Baron]

I would agree Windsor would be the best replacement but as you may have to experiment now you have lost your main yeast try Beoir from CML I use it in all my ales and bitters but it is higher on attenuation

 

[Sadfield]

It'll be interesting to see if CML and others lose one from the range.

Safale S-33 would be worth trying along side Windsor. Genetically similar, but might taste slightly different.

 

[The Baron]

This is what CML say about Firm which is their take on windsor hence the name

THE FIRM. A Low Attenuating Yeast.

Suitable for anything that requires a fruitier finish, or perfect for low alcohol pales, etc...

Attenuation: 63-68%

Flocculation: Medium

Fermentation: Ideally 18-22°C (64-72°F)

Max ABV 8 to 9% in 20 litres - Pitching Rate: 50g/100 litres

INGREDIENTS:Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), emulsifier E491

What to expect? Similar to Windsor but with a slightly different taste

 

[sifty]

Yes just saw S33 mentioned in another forum comparing yeasts.
I don't think CML sell here in NZ, no local brew shops seem to offer it...

 

[dlowe1992]

Doesn’t help in finding a replacement, but I was on the geterbrewed site last night and they seem to still have some London in stock…

 

[The Baron]

Let us know how you get on Sifty, if you get stuck with no suitable alternative I can send you some Firm from CML it's not that dear to post a bout £4/5 my treat. just let me know if you need to try it as other alternatives you try do not suit

 

[sifty]

Oh very generous, cheers.
I'm sure I'll find something though, I'm not overly concerned, it's just that I thought I was close to dialing in a 'house brew' and things have changed...

Amongst all the complicated brews it's nice to have a simple go-to recipe. I'll have to keep a couple of the old ones to compare...

 

[The Baron]

Just a update Sifty, Sadfield may be right as CML is showing The Firm out of stock at the moment so maybe it is the same yeast as inferred coming from Lallemand?

 

[sifty]

Oh, interesting...

 

[JockyBrewer]

When it comes to understanding the different yeasts, or finding a good substitution, I find this sheet very useful: Yeast Master

Safale S-33 is supposed to be very close to Lallemand London, and looking at the data sheets for each...

S-33: SafAle™ S‑33
London: LalBrew London™ | Lallemand Brewing

...they certainly seem similar.

 

[phildo79]

Despite the low flocculation every beer I've used this in has been crystal clear, gone off like a rocket, and allowed the malt to shine, with very slight fruitiness.

My brew day was on Tuesday. All day Wednesday, the blow-off tube was going mental. Today, nothing. My iSpindel seems to be telling me that it has basically finished fermenting (OG 1.064, now 1.014). Is this normal for this yeast? I don't think I have ever seen full fermentation that quick.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Well that's 77% apparent attenuation, and the expected figure for the yeast is 65-72%, so that seems ok.

I've found other English yeasts that rocket through fermentation like that, although 36-48 hours is a bit faster than I'd prefer them to ferment for that strength of beer.

 

[dmtaylor]

My brew day was on Tuesday. All day Wednesday, the blow-off tube was going mental. Today, nothing. My iSpindel seems to be telling me that it has basically finished fermenting (OG 1.064, now 1.014). Is this normal for this yeast? I don't think I have ever seen full fermentation that quick.

Yes, that is very normal. When fermented in the mid 60s F (that's about 18 C for you UK gents), my experience is that the S-33 / London / Windsor / M10 / M15 / Munton's family of yeasts (all very closely related) consistently completes fermentation within 36-40 hours max. If you fermented any warmer than that, say 19 or 20 C, it could go even faster than that. Isn't it cool? This family of yeasts is just about the fastest you'll ever see in your life. (And before anybody else says that cursed word "kveik", keep in mind that kveik is only faster than this because of the stupid hot fermentation temperatures, otherwise at room temp kveik acts just like normal yeast and would take many days to ferment out.)

 

[phildo79]

My iSpindel showed a temp of 24C at 9am this morning and is now 22C. Guess that is because it is no longer fermenting like crazy.