LALBREW NEW ENGLAND v VERDANT IPA

[Braufather]

My Siren soundwave all grain kit has arrived but i ordered Verdant IPA yeast instead of the New England one they recommended, as id read mixed reviews for the NE one and Verdant is my go to dry yeast for hazys.

But it's got me thinking, what will the difference be? Would the NE yeast have brought something to the table for this particular brew that i am now missing?

Also its saying Final gravity 1007, which seems very low( MO,wheat and carapils mashed at 67). With verdant im pretty sure it would come in at around 1011 to 1012

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/siren-craft-soundwave-ipa/

 

[dmtaylor]

The two yeasts are similar, both relatives of Wyeast 1318 London Ale III. It's extremely unlikely that either one of them would finish any lower than 1.011 (from OG 1.050), both having average attenuation of 76-78%.

 

[Sadfield]

More red apple esters from Verdant.

 

[KentishMan]

I’m just experimenting with some different yeasts, and those flavour wheels look awesome, where are they from?

 

[Sadfield]

I’m just experimenting with some different yeasts, and those flavour wheels look awesome, where are they from?

Lallemands website.

They're all in this pdf too.

Lallemand catalogue.

 

[Braufather]

The two yeasts are similar, both relatives of Wyeast 1318 London Ale III. It's extremely unlikely that either one of them would finish any lower than 1.011 (from OG 1.050), both having average attenuation of 76-78%.

that was my thinking too

 

[Sadfield]

Both are listed as Medium to High attenuation in Lallemands literature. A wide number of parameters affect attenuation so I don't think you can but a very narrow numerical value on it.

 

[Braufather]

Both are listed as Medium to High attenuation in Lallemands literature. A wide number of parameters affect attenuation so I don't think you can but a very narrow numerical value on it.

I was just going by my experience with verdant, similar malt bills and mash temps give me 1010 to 1012. Neve had below 1010 with it. No experience with the NE one though so was wondering about that.

 

[clib]

The two yeasts are similar, both relatives of Wyeast 1318 London Ale III. It's extremely unlikely that either one of them would finish any lower than 1.011 (from OG 1.050), both having average attenuation of 76-78%.

Verdant is a close relative of 1318. I think New England/ Conan is a relative of 1968/002 rather than 1318. iirc.

 

[Pennine]

Verdant is a close relative of 1318. I think New England/ Conan is a relative of 1968/002 rather than 1318. iirc.

I would be surprised if this is the case based on the flocculation characteristics. Fullers drops out fast and clear, New England usually gives a decent haze and is quite fruity from the few times I have brewed with it. Verdant seems like a better match but not that close.

As for the original post I would take NE any day over verdant.

 

[clib]

I would be surprised if this is the case based on the flocculation characteristics. Fullers drops out fast and clear, New England usually gives a decent haze and is quite fruity from the few times I have brewed with it. Verdant seems like a better match but not that close.

As for the original post I would take NE any day over verdant.

Wyeast 1968 and the Conan strain are genetically similar. Check out the chart...

https://beer.suregork.com/?p=4112
Lalbrew New England is a dried form of the Conan strain.

Verdant IPA is a dried form of the Verdant brewery yeast, and they have told us that they started out with 1318 and repitch it. So verdant and 1318 are very closely related.

 

[aolcot]

They do recommend a higher pitching rate with New England over verdant. They say you need to pitch between 1g/L and 2g/L of NE (verdant is half that). I have done a ~20L batch with a single packet of NE, but it did, unsurprisingly, have a long 36hr odd lag time.

 

[Pennine]

Wyeast 1968 and the Conan strain are genetically similar. Check out the chart...

https://beer.suregork.com/?p=4112
Lalbrew New England is a dried form of the Conan strain.

Verdant IPA is a dried form of the Verdant brewery yeast, and they have told us that they started out with 1318 and repitch it. So verdant and 1318 are very closely related.

Interesting, I also didn't notice how close 002 and 007 are, and they also ferment differently. This article has an little more information. Yeah Verdant and 1318 is well known.

https://beermaverick.com/the-comple...this,its aggressive attenuation and behavior.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

They do recommend a higher pitching rate with New England over verdant.

That's because Conans hate being dried - from memory the quoted minimum cell count on Lallemand New England is 20% of all their other yeasts.

At least there's plenty of dead yeast in the packet to act as nutrient...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I would be surprised if this is the case based on the flocculation characteristics.

Flocculation is one of the most malleable of characteristics, it really isn't a good guide to relationships.

And just generally I wouldn't get *too* hung up on DNA sequences as a guide to yeast behaviour. A man is closer genetically to his sister or mother than his grandfather, but there are certain obvious ways in which his anatomy is closer to that of his grandfather - or indeed any unrelated man.

It's complicated.

Fullers drops out fast and clear, New England usually gives a decent haze and is quite fruity from the few times I have brewed with it. Verdant seems like a better match but not that close.

Haze - or at least proper NEIPA haze - has nothing to do with yeast flocculation, it happens through the interaction of proteins and polyphenols.

As for the original post I would take NE any day over verdant.

My impression is that you are in a fairly small minority on that, but each to their own, we all have different tastes.

 

[Braufather]

So what could I expect subbing a conan yeast with verdant? How noticeably will it change the beer?

 

[Pennine]

So what could I expect subbing a conan yeast with verdant? How noticeably will it change the beer?

The few times I have used it I remember it being very fruity and relatively clean as a yeast. Maybe even a tad tart. It also drops clearer than verdant in a neipa. More refreshing I would say.

I wasn't very happy with verdant in a bitter it was similar to tim taylors and has that smooth earthy thing, I much prefer fullers or S-04. When used in a NEIPA it's also fruity but more creamy like the style dictates.

 

[Sadfield]

So what could I expect subbing a conan yeast with verdant? How noticeably will it change the beer?

An interesting one considering Soundwave has been in Siren's line up for c10 years, and likely initially brewed with something like US-05. It's probably changed more in its lifetime, to meet modern hazey expectations, than it would with swapping Verdant for New England for this brew.

 

[Pennine]

Speaking of which found some out of date NE yeast at the LHBS for half price and bought 4. Getting a big starter kicked off, I am going to use it for a bitter and a hazy.

 

[Neale]

For anyone interested their was a recent video on David Heaths channel with a presentation from Andrew Patterson of Lallemand. He talks about the Verdant yeast strain and a few others as well. He says the attenuation for Verdant is between 72-82%. Its worth a watch.