Just stop oil

[dad_of_jon]

good for the environment is debatable, better than existing perhaps. I still say less cars more public transport is the only way forward

I agree. As a pragmatist I do not see improved public transport outside of major population centers. I've lost count of the number of times the trains between gowerton to swansea is late or cancelled. its 13 mins or 5/6 miles and in the commuter belt. How can people keep jobs using public transport with such shonky service? The experiance the public get in my area is NOT compelling enough to give up a car, although I really do minimise car journeys where practicable.

 

[evil.soup]

And organised public transport could involve easily/reliably taking bikes on public transport

We probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

Do you ever really see public transport becoming a 24-7 service? In particular, do you see that happening in rural areas?

It just isn't going to happen, hence the need for a viable alternative private transport. Full EV doesn't fit that box either, the EV is an extremely flawed concept that has been wrongly sold as the solution to climate change by the people that build them. These big money companies have politicians in their pockets and Joe Public takes it all at face value.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

And how many people are fit enough or do not have ailments to cycle 14 miles a day.
Maybe you can but get a grip

Spot on and as i said earlier in the thread if the place you work doesn't have showers and you wear a suit etc for work you are not going to cycle.

Also the fact it rains every other day here so you are going to either get wet or wear waterproofs and sweat even more.

Edit to add - I missed the previous answer.

Iancon - As I've posted in previous everyone has to put into the actions taken including showers at work, fairly normal in some places.

In an ideal world the option to shower at work would be just that but its not going to happen, how many businesses have the room and money to install showers for a few people that may decided to cycle to work in the future.

There are too way too may people that couldn't cycle or wouldn't want to, i am in my 60s i wouldn't want to tackle the hills round here and i wouldn't want to take my life in my hands travelling round the narrow lanes i have to use we see enough crashes as it is if the lanes were flooded with cycles it would be carnage, what about all the people who have health issues who couldn't cycle it all sounds very nice and green but in reality its not going to happen.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I do enjoy Cycling, but cycling is no replacement for the gym, plus of course its inconvenient for work since you would turn up soaked in sweat or rain. Like all the other daft ideas, Cycling is not a viable commuter option.
Organised public transport is needed to reduce traffic but is no substitute for a car in day to day life.

I used to cycle 8 miles into work (then 8 miles back) up to 3 times a week but only if it was dry as wet weather cycling requires more bike maintenance. During the lighter months i'd make a detour and cycle 14 miles along Swansea bay. I shared the single works shower for men with another cyclist. Depending on who got in first meant you might have a 10 min wait to get showered. No biggie. Then as we grew as a company a lot of new lads joined and they went to the city gym but showered in the office. All of a sudden it could be 40 mins wait. So I gave it up. I drove into work earlier went home earlier and cycled outside of working hours. Cycling can be PART of a commuting strategy, but it's not really all or nothing. We all have different requirements.

I wanted to continue to commute by bike but was eventually dissuaded by the increasing amount of obstacles placed (not necessarily intentionally) in my way

 

[evil.soup]

I used to cycle 8 miles into work (then 8 miles back) up to 3 times a week but only if it was dry as wet weather cycling requires more bike maintenance. During the lighter months i'd make a detour and cycle 14 miles along Swansea bay. I shared the single works shower for men with another cyclist. Depending on who got in first meant you might have a 10 min wait to get showered. No biggie. Then as we grew as a company a lot of new lads joined and they went to the city gym but showered in the office. All of a sudden it could be 40 mins wait. So I gave it up. I drove into work earlier went home earlier and cycled outside of working hours. Cycling can be PART of a commuting strategy, but it's not really all or nothing. We all have different requirements.

I wanted to continue to commute by bike but was eventually dissuaded by the increasing amount of obstacles placed (not necessarily intentionally) in my way

I have contemplated cycling to work as I do enjoy cycling, but there is no viable way I could do it and be in a position to do my job at the other end due to a lack of facilities.

Even if there were facilities available then certain days of the week I may be able to do it, but it would be the rare occasion rather than the norm.

All that said, cycling on the roads into Cardiff would be pretty Lethal during rush hour. There are of course cycle trails, but these wind along the river so are a great cycle route but not a quick and convenient commuter option.

Also, as others have already said, cycling is for the fit and healthy, it's not for everyone.

 

[dad_of_jon]

And how many people are fit enough or do not have ailments to cycle 14 miles a day.
Maybe you can but get a grip

apologies for replying randomly to posts on this thread but I've had a busy day, helping family with electrics & plumbing then bottled latest beer , drunk a couple of hb's, then did a 16 mile round trip on the bike stopping half way for a cheeky beer in beerriff. - It doesn't have to be all or nothing. My round trip was 17 miles when working. even with a week of rain free weather I didn't cycle every day. Every other day with a recovery day in-between. I did once do 3 in a row because of weather and the last day was not fun. So cycling can help with emissions. Even more so with e-bikes for those with certain health issues. No way will it work for everyone.

My wife can't ride a bike and if car ownership was impossible to keep up she'd probably give up work.

 

[jof]

My wife can't ride a bike and if car ownership was impossible to keep up she'd probably give up work.

And that's the problem.
If the establishment succeed in removing cars, 1/2 the population couldnt get to work, the economy would collapse etc.
Eventually things would recover, but it's such a drastic change that it can't be done by political means.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I have contemplated cycling to work as I do enjoy cycling, but there is no viable way I could do it and be in a position to do my job at the other end due to a lack of facilities.

Even if there were facilities available then certain days of the week I may be able to do it, but it would be the rare occasion rather than the norm.

All that said, cycling on the roads into Cardiff would be pretty Lethal during rush hour. There are of course cycle trails, but these wind along the river so are a great cycle route but not a quick and convenient commuter option.

Also, as others have already said, cycling is for the fit and healthy, it's not for everyone.

You've got the dice stacked against you ES - Whilst I prefer Cardiff as a city to Swansea, The whole Cardiff commute is pretty grim. I did train and car to Cardiff. I can't comment re: cycling infrastructure but I know enough about routes into Cardiff to understand the worry that could be. If there are no facilities at the office why bother

My old route into work was on disused railway lines. i.e flat so no need to be Bradley Wiggins to get into work. You don't need to fit to cycle or healthy especially with e-bikes these days.

I wasn't fit to start with but recall my heart surgeons notes : He is otherwise an active man. (despite needing an urgent heart bypass op)

Even with my love of cycling a 5 day cycling commute was not for me.

P.S - Only my bottom half is 'fit' perhaps I should cycle to the GYM to do some upper body exercise, although years of working in IT may have withered north of my belly button away

 

[lancon]

As in earlier post, it either has to be let's get it sorted, (public transport/less need to travel) or play at being concerned about the environment and our childen

 

[dad_of_jon]

And that's the problem.
If the establishment succeed in removing cars, 1/2 the population couldnt get to work, the economy would collapse etc.
Eventually things would recover, but it's such a drastic change that it can't be done by political means.

Indeed, despite with covid she being able to succesfully WFH 90% of the time. Yet the 'bosses' wanted a return to the status quo.

 

[lancon]

There is a consistent cry of public transport is no good, presently it isn't, it needs to change massively, it can work. It would be cheaper in the long run than EVs

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I have commuted all my life on my bike, i'm very lucky. Last year I think I only drove in once! Currently my commute is 15 miles a day and by Cornish standards is pretty flat, I have showers at work (to be honest I always have had). I love it, it's so good for my mental health and really feel it on the very days that I don't cycle.

As @dad_of_jon said over winter you get more wear and tear, I have a decent bike that I won't cycle over winter. To get round that I bought a winter commuter which cost me £100 on gumtree 4 years ago, I spent £70 on two decent winter tires and £40 on mudguards and apart from changing brake pads i've only had to get it serviced once.

There are no public transport options for me unfortunately and as I absolutely refuse to pay to park I have no option, it is occasionally a drag if i'm feeling under the weather but usually it's fine. A good podcast usually see's me right.

 

[evil.soup]

You've got the dice stacked against you ES - Whilst I prefer Cardiff as a city to Swansea, The whole Cardiff commute is pretty grim. I did train and car to Cardiff. I can't comment re: cycling infrastructure but I know enough about routes into Cardiff to understand the worry that could be. If there are no facilities at the office why bother

My old route into work was on disused railway lines. i.e flat so no need to be Bradley Wiggins to get into work. You don't need to fit to cycle or healthy especially with e-bikes these days.

I wasn't fit to start with but recall my heart surgeons notes : He is otherwise an active man. (despite needing an urgent heart bypass op)

Even with my love of cycling a 5 day cycling commute was not for me.

P.S - Only my bottom half is 'fit' perhaps I should cycle to the GYM to do some upper body exercise, although years of working in IT may have withered north of my belly button away

Ah yes there are some great routes for cycling around Swansea but much of the Cardiff routes tend not to go in straight lines but they are mainly flat when you get close enough. As you head out of Cardiff there are a lot of old rail track trails that make for good cycling but are not exactly flat.
I hate road cycling, it's dangerous and no fun at all.

 

[evil.soup]

As in earlier post, it either has to be let's get it sorted, (public transport/less need to travel) or play at being concerned about the environment and our childen

Not sure about others, but I'm not playing at being concerned, I just don't agree with you opinion/solution.

You see, this is half the problem. The activists seem to think if you don't agree with their solution then you are part of the problem. The trouble with the solutions you have in mind is that it would require more public spending than any government could ever afford and it would take decades to implement, even when this world beating public transport system is in place, you would need people to actually use it. The cost implications and realities of the idea are just inconceivable.

My thinking of plug in hybrid being the future is achievable and realistic and more financially economical, it would be more widely available to get people out of petrol/diesel only cars and into cars that could be mainly used as short distance EVs for the majority of transport needs. It could also be done quickly, more so than getting everyone into an EV with a 600 mile range, a 1 ton battery and 50k plus price tag!

I would imagine my commute is rather an average one, if my car was a plug in hybrid, I may only end up using petrol once a week, if that.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Whilst covid reduced miles travelled per person due to lockdowns and WFH, private transport post covid appears to have recovered better than public transport.

Whether this is due to a realization you're less likely to catch a bug from someone in/on your own vehicle rather than on a rammed bus or train, or due to an increased unreliability of public transport (some covid policies still remain despite it being de-classified) , industrial action etc...

The best opportunity to reduce travelling was the WFH if you can set of legislation. WFH has been rolled back a lot but at least there are more 'hybrid' working options than before. I know of many key workers & delivery drivers that said using the roads during lockdown was a joy due to lack of traffic. Yes cities that require commuting footfall to support them and the businesses within suffere/d. It's another case of winners & losers.

Given it's likely that public transport will never be up to scratch in many rural places isn't allowing those who need not commute going to improve the travelling experience for those who HAVE to?

Cities will need to change if this happens.

We will always need OIL but hopefully we can stop using dino juice and stop burning it.

 

[Bosch]

Cities will need to change if this happens.

We will always need OIL but hopefully we can stop using dino juice and stop burning it

That's the whole concept of the 5 minute city. Nobody is more than 5 minutes from any public service, cutting down the need to drive.
The sprawling conurbations and suburbs where everyone drives an hour or more just to fire off emails when they can do this from home is really unsustainable

 

[Kerby]

And how many people are fit enough or do not have ailments to cycle 14 miles a day.
Maybe you can but get a grip

You’re absolutely right, but perhaps as a society we would be fitter with fewer ailments if more people did.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

As in earlier post, it either has to be let's get it sorted, (public transport/less need to travel) or play at being concerned about the environment and our childen

Evil.soup - Not sure about others, but I'm not playing at being concerned, I just don't agree with you opinion/solution.

Exactly @evil.soup

Here we go again, its not car drivers that are the main polluters did you read the post that showed 7 ships out of how many hundreds of thousands cause more pollution than all cars on the planet, old trucks that cannot use AdBlue that drive all day long only stopping for breaks cause far more pollution than your average daily car journey travelling to work parking for 8 hours then traveling home, i dont have the figures but i imagine a small percentage of all cars are actually on the road for more than two hours a day and as cars even diesels running AdBlue are so much cleaner than they used to be i think its time they stopped beating the car driver with the big anti green stick.

 

[evil.soup]

Whilst covid reduced miles travelled per person due to lockdowns and WFH, private transport post covid appears to have recovered better than public transport.

Whether this is due to a realization you're less likely to catch a bug from someone in/on your own vehicle rather than on a rammed bus or train, or due to an increased unreliability of public transport (some covid policies still remain despite it being de-classified) , industrial action etc...

The best opportunity to reduce travelling was the WFH if you can set of legislation. WFH has been rolled back s lot but at least there are more 'hybrid' working options than before. I know of many key workers & delivery drivers that said using the roads during lockdown was a joy due to lack of traffic. Yes cities that require commuting footfall to support them and the businesses within suffere/d. It's another case of winners & losers.

Given it's likely that public transport will never be up to scratch in many rural places isn't allowing those who need not commute going to improve the travelling experience for those who HAVE to?

Cities will need to change if this happens.

We will always need OIL but hopefully we can stop using dino juice and stop burning it.

I have to agree with WFH being part of the solution, I work a hybrid pattern and the truth is, much of my job van be done from home, but not all of it.
Many more are able to do the same but it's just not allowed any more.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Exactly @evil.soup

Here we go again, its not car drivers that are the main polluters did you read the post that showed 7 ships out of how many hundreds of thousands cause more pollution than all cars on the planet, old trucks that cannot use AdBlue that drive all day long only stopping for breaks cause far more pollution than your average daily car journey travelling to work parking for 8 hours then traveling home, i dont have the figures but i imagine a small percentage of all cars are actually on the road for more than two hours a day and as cars even diesels running AdBlue are so much cleaner than they used to be i think its time they stopped beating the car driver with the big anti green stick.

Playing devil's advocate here but those cargo ships are bringing thousands of tonnes of cargo, not nipping down the shop for a 4 pack or whatever. We could go back to sailing ships I suppose? In fact my colleagues husbands coffee company does exactly that, import coffee on sailing ships. Probably why its so ludicrously expensive.