Just stop oil

[Chippy_Tea]

Within the next twenty years I'd guess. So enjoy your beers. I intend to. This isn't going to be pretty.

Its very unlikely i will be around to see it i feel sorry for those left behind who are going go through this especially as they didnt caused it.

 

[evil.soup]

I truly believe that the plug in hybrid is the solution, not fully electric cars. A plug in with 100mile electric range would be more than enough for a pollution free commute and most weekend journeys. Backed up with a small high powered turbo petrol engine it would be perfect, think GRYaris with a battery, best of both worlds!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I truly believe that the plug in hybrid is the solution, not fully electric cars.

Again its not for the 35% of the population who cannot charge at home so must pay much more to use a public charger.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I truly believe that the plug in hybrid is the solution, not fully electric cars. A plug in with 100mile electric range would be more than enough for a pollution free commute and most weekend journeys. Backed up with a small high powered turbo petrol engine it would be perfect, think GRYaris with a battery, best of both worlds!

But then you have the worst of both worlds too. The mining of the materials needed to make the batteries and the issue of disposing of them end of life, as well as exhaust pollution, regular servicing (waste oil to dispose of etc).

 

[MrJay83]

Again its not for the 35% of the population who cannot charge at home so must pay much more to use a public charger.

I'd love to see that percentage for the likes of Glasgow or Edinburgh. In the tenement areas, the shared EV charger would be like the old shared toilet arrangement. Neo-peasants

 

[evil.soup]

Again its not for the 35% of the population who cannot charge at home so must pay much more to use a public charger.

True, there would be a higher cost for those that can't charge at home, I am actually in the 35%, but in terms of a compromise, I feel its a better option than blanket EV's in the pursuit to reduce emissions while still having the benefits of a petrol car.
The hope would be that one day, on street home charging will become more accessible, it needs to evolve either way.

 

[evil.soup]

But then you have the worst of both worlds too. The mining of the materials needed to make the batteries and the issue of disposing of them end of life, as well as exhaust pollution, regular servicing (waste oil to dispose of etc).

I don't agree with this. It would reduce petrol emissions massively with a highly economical engine and the need for petrol would be dramatically reduced, meaning most journeys would be Electric only. Service schedules could be significantly extended for the petrol engine as it would see limited use.


In terms of the production of batteries, today we strive to build bigger and bigger more powerful batteries to try to make up for the fact that most EVs have poor range. If a 100 mile battery was all that was needed when paired to the right engine, then battery production would be reduced significantly. Don't forget, the individual cells are quite small, so a battery that serves a single large EV today could serve 3 to 4 plug in hybrid cars.

Full EV is not the future, in many ways for the reasons you mention above.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I don't agree with this. It would reduce petrol emissions massively with a highly economical engine and the need for petrol would be dramatically reduced, meaning most journeys would be Electric only. Service schedules could be significantly extended for the petrol engine as it would see limited use.

Non plug in hybrid vehicles are not the holy grail. Yes, you get more MPG but, as I said above, you have the best and worst of both worlds. The electricity to charge their batteries is generated from burning petrol or deisel!

I thought the idea was to remove petrol and diesel cars from our roads completely. What is the point in “reducing” the amount of petrol and diesel we burn if it is all going to be burnt anyway. It doesn’t matter if we burn it all in the next 50 years or all in the next 150 or 550 years, the end result will be the same.

And, service schedules of ICE cars are not reduced if their use is limited. The schedules are X amount of miles or X months, whatever comes first.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

But then you have the worst of both worlds too. The mining of the materials needed to make the batteries and the issue of disposing of them end of life, as well as exhaust pollution, regular servicing (waste oil to dispose of etc).

Lets be honest its not cars that are doing the major polluting most of them are using E10 and are much cleaner than they used to be, a HGV and Bus does 7 - 9 mpg and unlike most cars that drive to work then park for several hours before returning home are driving all day and many 24 hours a day. we then move on to ships that IIRC from an earlier post only 7 of which running at the same time cause more pollution than all cars on the planet,

Then we move on to planes -

Air traffic represents less than 2-3% of the global CO2 emissions whereas road traffic accounts for around 10% of these direct emissions. Still, planes remain among the most polluting means of transport, together with cars.

The poor car driver is an easy target they will blame us for climate change and bleed us dry and there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

The poor car driver is an easy target they will blame us for climate change and bleed us dry and there is nothing we can do about it.

It is all just another example of trying to be seen to be doing something, even if that something is going to have little or no real effect and the biggest polluters can carry on regardless.

 

[chopps]

Less driving has to be the future, whether electric, hybrid or ICE.
Moving individuals round all in their own separate vehicles and all going to the same place is just daft really.
It would be wrong to force people out of cars, but can't we just make it much easier, cheaper and safer to make public transport a no-brainer decision?

I'd love to use public transport more but no chance round here in Sandbach, and it's not that rural, really.
About 19K population, 1 mile from the M6, direct train to Manchester and Crewe. Used to be a manufacturing town, now it's a commuter town. Lots of electric cars charging on driveways now, but hardly any public chargers unless you get on the motorway at the services.

If I want to go to the nearest 'large' town for an evening out, cinema or a bigger choice of eateries it's Crewe.
My nearby bus stop runs Mon-Fri only.
Last bus is 16.54 going out and the last bus home arrives at 17.29. No use to anyone interested in a night out.

I can walk into Sandbach centre and catch a bus from there. They run later, I think the last one back from Crewe arrives at 11.30pm ish, but the walking involved would total about an hour. Fine in the summer, occasionally.

Arriva just fired all their drivers and withdrew services leaving potentially no bus service, but a local bus co has jumped in with a council subsidy to continue the routes that Arriva binned off.

I can walk 15 minutes to Sandbach train station and go to Crewe that way, but Crewe station is nowhere near the town centre. Again, totals about an hour and a half of walking time to build into your cinema visit or whatever, and there's the ongoing risk of a sudden strike or rescheduled services.

Uber? Cheshire east doesn't allow them to play here.
Call a Sandbach taxi? No chance. You need to give a few days notice.
Dial-A-Ride services? We're not rural enough for the rural rider type schemes.

So I'll use my 3.2L diesel truck. Don't judge me. I used to have an M3 so you're all better off :)
And I'll leave it in Crewe overnight if I have a beer, get a taxi from the rank to get home, then get a lift (in another car) to pick it up in the morning. Ridiculous.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It would be wrong to force people out of cars, but can't we just make it much easier, cheaper and safer to make public transport a no-brainer decision?

My son uses public transport as he doesn't drive and he hates it so much he is now learning to drive, he especially hates the late bus and train (when it turns up ) as he doesn't feel safe when there are groups of people together who are drunk and being aggressive the bus driver doesn't get involved (for obvious reasons) and there are no guards on a bus, i doubt they will ever make it safe the won't employ more people.

My car has a small petrol engine which runs on E10 and has a Catalytic converter, i pay my road tax, i pay a ridiculous amount for fuel at the pump and even more tax, i then get my car serviced annually and pay even more tax, the government are doing all right out of us car drivers and i will happily begrudgingly carry on paying if it means i can use my car and not public transport which doesn't work here, as has been said car drivers are not the main polluters they just want everyone to believe we are so they can carry on screwing us.

 

[The Baron]

It is all just another example of trying to be seen to be doing something, even if that something is going to have little or no real effect and the biggest polluters can carry on regardless.

It is a pointless exercise Benfleet as you have said we are only 1% of the problem and the reason people will not buy into it even though most agree with it is we are the ones being hit financially the common man who most on the middle to lower struggle to maintain a cheap mode of transport to get to work and earn a living while China,India, USA and the likes contributing nothing in real terms to combat it.
The common people can not get their head around why we should be leading for so little contribution to this issue. Most are willing to follow IF the others do it but at 1% does it really matter in the big picture and don't come with the well somebody has to do it WE do not hardly contribute at all. That's how most people see it on the street

 

[evil.soup]

Non plug in hybrid vehicles are not the holy grail. Yes, you get more MPG but, as I said above, you have the best and worst of both worlds. The electricity to charge their batteries is generated from burning petrol or deisel!

I thought the idea was to remove petrol and diesel cars from our roads completely. What is the point in “reducing” the amount of petrol and diesel we burn if it is all going to be burnt anyway. It doesn’t matter if we burn it all in the next 50 years or all in the next 150 or 550 years, the end result will be the same.

And, service schedules of ICE cars are not reduced if their use is limited. The schedules are X amount of miles or X months, whatever comes first.

I think you miss read my post. I am talking about plug in hybrid, so the battery can be charged in the normal EV fashion, not by the petrol engine as in the non-plug in car. You are right on that point, I don't think the non plug in car is a solution at all. The plug in would reduce fuel consumption significantly and would only need a short range much smaller battery. The car would be lighter than a 450mile EV, cheaper to make and use less resources.

As for service intervals, manufacturers could extend these to 20,000 miles and 2 years comfortably if they wanted to. Let's not forget, they make hundreds of thousands of pounds in mandatory servicing to maintain a warranty. Most modern engines do not need an oil change every 12 months, particularly if use is low. Don't get sucked into the manufacturer created myth that the engine will implode if you miss a service.

Building giant EVs with 400 to 600 mile range is stupid, 90% of the time the car won't be using that range, it's just for the odd journey you would need it for. In a plug in, that long journey substitutes a frugal yet powerful small petrol engine, that cost the earth far less in ecological impact than producing a battery with and extra 400 mile range for as and when.

Trouble with EV converts/activists is they really don't want to engage in any argument against their massive investment in the name of the planet.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

As expected the government are going to ignore them and crack on - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-66357043

Summary​

1. The government will issue hundreds of new oil and gas licences for the North Sea, Rishi Sunak confirms
2. The first will be issued this autumn - with at least 100 in the next round
3. "We’re choosing to power up Britain from Britain," says Sunak
4. And he says even when the UK reaches net zero in 2050, it will still need oil and gas
5. Downing Street also confirms millions of pounds for a new carbon capture scheme in north-east Scotland
6. Critics say carbon capture is a "greenwashing" tactic by the fossil fuel industry
7. And the SNP warns that while energy security is important, the UK needs to consider "the looming climate catastrophe"

 

[evil.soup]

As expected the government are going to ignore them and crack on - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-66357043

Summary​

1. The government will issue hundreds of new oil and gas licences for the North Sea, Rishi Sunak confirms
2. The first will be issued this autumn - with at least 100 in the next round
3. "We’re choosing to power up Britain from Britain," says Sunak
4. And he says even when the UK reaches net zero in 2050, it will still need oil and gas
5. Downing Street also confirms millions of pounds for a new carbon capture scheme in north-east Scotland
6. Critics say carbon capture is a "greenwashing" tactic by the fossil fuel industry
7. And the SNP warns that while energy security is important, the UK needs to consider "the looming climate catastrophe"

That's a real shame.

I am a true petrol head, but there is no doubt in my mind that things need to change. Stopping things at the source, at least for new projects, is the way forward as we evolve to a cleaner way of living.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Let’s face it, we will be burning fossil fuels until there’s none left to burn.

 

[The Baron]

Let’s face it, we will be burning fossil fuels until there’s none left to burn.

Yes because everybody else will be

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Yes because everybody else will be

Yes, sorry, by “we” I meant everyone.

 

[The Baron]

Thats right Benfleet as the main culprits are sabre rattling and doing nothing and our measly 1% is not even worth putting the poorer end of society through it.