Initial thoughts on BIAB in Klarstein Fullhorn

[RxAngus]

Just thought I would share some feedback having done a couple of all-grain recipes in my Klarstein Fullhorn in case it should prove useful to anyone.


The unit has a capacity of 26.7L to the full line when the bazooka and false bottom are fitted. Approximately 1 litre of wort is retained unless the unit is tipped.

It takes around 1 hour to heat 25L of 7'C water to 100'C. (I just wondered!)

Mash can be maintained circa 66'C using just the 900W element. Rolling boil can be maintained using just the 1600W element.

The digital temperature readout is a little low by around 2'C at mash temperatures.

The height of the unit makes lifting the grain bag out very hard work. I will mash on the floor next time.

Hop pellets clog the bazooka in no time so use a fine mesh bag for those.

A 25L brew will boil over initially so either go for 23L max or draw off 2L for a couple of minutes until things calm down and add back gradually.

Wort losses are 4.5 to 5L/hour when boiling.


Overall I think the unit is great. There is a mechanical timer that I don't use but the digital setpoint/readout is very easy to use. Klarstein sell a grain bag for the Beerfest kettle which fits the Fullhorn perfectly albeit it's quite expensive.

 

[crowcrow]

@Rodcx500z is also a big fan. I'm very impressed with the Klarstein for the price and meets my needs well (I got the Maischfes).

For lifting the grain bag, I am lucky enough to have a sturdy bench I brew on, which I step onto when moving the mash, when I first tried to brew on a table it was a nightmare!

Happy brewing!

 

[NormanHurst]

A 25L brew will boil over initially so either go for 23L max or draw off 2L for a couple of minutes until things calm down and add back gradually

Is that 23L of wort pre-boil or a 23L recipe with 27/28L pre-boil?

 

[RxAngus]

Is that 23L of wort pre-boil or a 23L recipe with 27/28L pre-boil?

I found that if you put 25L in in pre-boil, it will boil over when it reaches 100'C. I've had to quickly drain 2L but was able to add that back almost immediately. The recipe was 25L pre-boil for 20L in the fermenter (Punk IPA DIY Dog kit from BrewUK).

You *might* be able to fit 28L in with an aim to end up with 23L in the fermenter post-boil but it will boil over for sure initially. I think 23L pre-boil is the maximum safe amount so not quite sure how you'd deal with a recipe aiming for 23L in the fermenter. Probably need to scale it down.

 

[Galena]

A 25L brew will boil over initially so either go for 23L max or draw off 2L for a couple of minutes until things calm down and add back gradually.

A good review, I have a Klarstein and have 21 brews on it so far, I agree with most of what you say, but I can happily boil 27 litres without boil over and have done quite a few times. I admit it is sometimes very close but as soon as it starts I turn the power down to 1600w and stir with a metal paddle and that soon puts it down.
The bag is expensive but it is very well made and I would not want to use a cheaper one, because I batch sparge, I drain to a bucket, sparge, drain to the bucket, lift the kettle to the floor and lift the bag out, then pour the bucket into the kettle and put it back on the bench for the boil.
I agree the bazooke is useless and I never use it, I chuck the pellets in loose and strain with a mesh bag when decanting to the FV.

Wort losses sound a bit high to me, I reckon no more than 3L/ hr

 

[RxAngus]

A good review, I have a Klarstein and have 21 brews on it so far, I agree with most of what you say, but I can happily boil 27 litres without boil over and have done quite a few times. I admit it is sometimes very close but as soon as it starts I turn the power down to 1600w and stir with a metal paddle and that soon puts it down.
The bag is expensive but it is very well made and I would not want to use a cheaper one, because I batch sparge, I drain to a bucket, sparge, drain to the bucket, lift the kettle to the floor and lift the bag out, then pour the bucket into the kettle and put it back on the bench for the boil.
I agree the bazooke is useless and I never use it, I chuck the pellets in loose and strain with a mesh bag when decanting to the FV.

Wort losses sound a bit high to me, I reckon no more than 3L/ hr

All fair comment and with far more brews under your belt I'm sure you're right about the capacity. That's good to hear that it should be possible to end up with 23L in the FV too!

 

[NormanHurst]

A good review, I have a Klarstein and have 21 brews on it so far, I agree with most of what you say, but I can happily boil 27 litres without boil over and have done quite a few times. I admit it is sometimes very close but as soon as it starts I turn the power down to 1600w and stir with a metal paddle and that soon puts it down.
The bag is expensive but it is very well made and I would not want to use a cheaper one, because I batch sparge, I drain to a bucket, sparge, drain to the bucket, lift the kettle to the floor and lift the bag out, then pour the bucket into the kettle and put it back on the bench for the boil.
I agree the bazooke is useless and I never use it, I chuck the pellets in loose and strain with a mesh bag when decanting to the FV.

Wort losses sound a bit high to me, I reckon no more than 3L/ hr

With the batch sparging, are you pouring jugs of hot water through the grain in the bag and letting it drain gradually through to the bucket, or pouring all the sparge water in to the kettle in one go and letting it sit for, say, 20 minutes before draining into bucket all in one go?

Just getting my head around various options as I'm thinking of upgrading from my current 10-12L stove top set up.

 

[crowcrow]

For my 30 litre one, the max fill line is actually 27 litres - 30 litres it to the very top. Your milage may vary!

 

[Galena]

With the batch sparging, are you pouring jugs of hot water through the grain in the bag and letting it drain gradually through to the bucket, or pouring all the sparge water in to the kettle in one go and letting it sit for, say, 20 minutes before draining into bucket all in one go?

Just getting my head around various options as I'm thinking of upgrading from my current 10-12L stove top set up.

I decant my sparge water to a plastic insulated drinks cooler at 85C and then leave, after the mash is complete I drain all the wort to a bucket, then pour all of the sparge water (at approx. 76C) into the kettle, stir really well and leave for 5 mins, stir and then decant to bucket. Then remove the grain bag and return all the water to the kettle. This combined with recirculating the mash I am getting 80% mash efficiency.

 

[NormanHurst]

I decant my sparge water to a plastic insulated drinks cooler at 85C and then leave, after the mash is complete I drain all the wort to a bucket, then pour all of the sparge water (at approx. 76C) into the kettle, stir really well and leave for 5 mins, stir and then decant to bucket. Then remove the grain bag and return all the water to the kettle. This combined with recirculating the mash I am getting 80% mash efficiency.

Thanks. It is pretty similar to my current more manual, smaller stockpot and stove set up which appeals to me. Also seems to have fewer moving parts that can go wrong than an all in one.

Do you have a false bottom in the mash other than the bag?

 

[Galena]

Thanks. It is pretty similar to my current more manual, smaller stockpot and stove set up which appeals to me. Also seems to have fewer moving parts that can go wrong than an all in one.

Do you have a false bottom in the mash other than the bag?

Yes, the Fullhorn comes supplied with one.

 

[RxAngus]

I found that if you put 25L in in pre-boil, it will boil over when it reaches 100'C. I've had to quickly drain 2L but was able to add that back almost immediately. The recipe was 25L pre-boil for 20L in the fermenter (Punk IPA DIY Dog kit from BrewUK).

You *might* be able to fit 28L in with an aim to end up with 23L in the fermenter post-boil but it will boil over for sure initially. I think 23L pre-boil is the maximum safe amount so not quite sure how you'd deal with a recipe aiming for 23L in the fermenter. Probably need to scale it down.

Just to add another data point, I brewed again yesterday with the aim of getting 23L into the FV. My preboil volume was probably 25L (around 1cm below the full line) and as Galena suggested, I was ready with the metal paddle. As soon as it reached boiling, it boiled over despite my switching off the 900W element and stirring furiously. I had to draw off several litres very quickly until the foaming subsided. I was able to add it all back immediately though.

Happily, I easily got 23L into the FV so the boil losses are not what I thought above. I mashed on the floor which was SO much easier for lifting the bag and dunk sparging. My recipe stated 1044 OG but I was more like 1048 so looks like I achieved quite good efficiency. It's happily fermenting away today.

 

[jof]

I'm pleased to read about your experiences, as I'm thinking of putting a fullhorn on my birthday list.
All these £300+ grainfather stuff seems a little excessive to me for what is a basically a tea urn with a false bottom
That way I can make a leap from stock pot partial mash (1.5kg) to all grain

 

[Nottsbeer]

I'm pleased to read about your experiences, as I'm thinking of putting a fullhorn on my birthday list.
All these £300+ grainfather stuff seems a little excessive to me for what is a basically a tea urn with a false bottom
That way I can make a leap from stock pot partial mash (1.5kg) to all grain

I've started to look around for a low price bit of kit as well and have been looking at the Fullhorn as its had some good recommendations. Am also looking at this
https://www.geterbrewed.com/digital-turbo-boiler-35-litres-kegland/
Haven't found any reviews yet for it tho. The klarstein site mentions possible delivery issues due to Brexit

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Angus, I love my full horn had it for 2 years now done loads of brews 23L using dunk sparge, if you need say 29L total water start with 20 for the mash put the other heated water in an fv when mash is done dunk the bag with grain for 20 mins then tip water in the kettle, here’s a pic of pushing the limit, I have never had a boil over for the money this kettle is worth every penny

 

[Galena]

As above, great bit of kit and I too have never had a boil over despite being right on the limit. Mind you I have had a couple of close calls and frantic stirring moments.

 

[RxAngus]

I've brewed four times now in the Fullhorn and each time as I reach boiling I get quite dramatic foaming which spills over unless I quickly drain off a few litres. As mentioned above, I can reintroduce it immediately though after which there is no problem. I'm happy to live with this given I know to expect it.

I think the Fullhorn is a great way to get into all-grain brewing before (maybe) plunging for one of the more expensive systems. The Brexit delivery note was on the website when I ordered but I had no problems in practice albeit I think it was about 14 days delivery in the end.

I've had some great (and hopefully honest) feedback on my all-grain brews. So far I've done TT Landlord, Punk IPA, my own take on Skye Red and lastly, St Arnold Elissa which is an all-Cascade IPA from Texas. Later this week it's Mac's Green Beret which is a NZ IPA with Nelson Sauvin and Amarillo.

I'm learning something new with every brew.

Happy Days!

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Angus glad your happy with it, as soon as mine hits the boil i turn the 900w element off and just boil on 1600w

 

[RxAngus]

Hi Angus glad your happy with it, as soon as mine hits the boil i turn the 900w element off and just boil on 1600w

Yep tried that and frantic stirring too but still it boils over. How are you determining that you've hit the boil ie is it the bubbling, a thermometer or the digital readout (or some combination?)

Maybe I need to kill the 900W element a bit sooner?

 

[Nottsbeer]

I've brewed four times now in the Fullhorn and each time as I reach boiling I get quite dramatic foaming which spills over unless I quickly drain off a few litres. As mentioned above, I can reintroduce it immediately though after which there is no problem. I'm happy to live with this given I know to expect it.

I think the Fullhorn is a great way to get into all-grain brewing before (maybe) plunging for one of the more expensive systems. The Brexit delivery note was on the website when I ordered but I had no problems in practice albeit I think it was about 14 days delivery in the end.

I've had some great (and hopefully honest) feedback on my all-grain brews. So far I've done TT Landlord, Punk IPA, my own take on Skye Red and lastly, St Arnold Elissa which is an all-Cascade IPA from Texas. Later this week it's Mac's Green Beret which is a NZ IPA with Nelson Sauvin and Amarillo.

I'm learning something new with every brew.

Happy Days!

I ended up getting the 35L Digiboil kit as I couldn't get a response from Klarstein regarding delivery. I think the digiboil has a 5L bigger capacity, so hopefully any boiling issues when I do a large brew will not be an issue. I took it for a test spin last Friday and made a 13L brew. I was very impressed with the boiler, especially the ability to switch from 900W/1600W to 2400W. As you say, these are great for getting into AG brewing (especially as I can't use the kitchen hob!!).

Out of interest, what recipe did you use for your TT landlord? I have the GW recipe (or is it GH?) which I'm planning to do once I get some of the Yorkshire liquid yeast.
Cheers, john