Infection and how to remove

[Elliott 22]

I would then be looking at other things like the suggestion of some cleaning product residue maybe

I had previously though that but ran water through my system with a keg cleaner the keg king one after cleaning and then just chemsan after before hand
As in don’t fear the foam?

 

[Elliott 22]

Thank you everyone for your help so far
Don’t mean to sound negative if it comes across like that in any way
Just very frustrated

 

[thegrantickle]

I would use caustic soda (strong alkali) first, rinse 3X with fresh water. Then use fresh chem/star San (mild acid).

Don't just spray down the containers, fill them completely.

Soak everything you think might be infected in each solution. Leave for a couple of hours. Make sure every seal gets treated, every valve, every screw thread. Ball valves are a common problem, run solution through them while opening and closing repeatedly. Take your taps fully apart and soak.

The caustic will kill any acid tolerant bacteria and the chemsan will kill alkali tolerant bacteria.

As long as you are sure to soak every surface in these, nothing can survive so it must be something else. Hope that helps.

 

[labrewski]

What visible signs of infection do u have a few pics and I'm sure someone here can pinpoint it for u

 

[Elliott 22]

I would use caustic soda (strong alkali) first, rinse 3X with fresh water. Then use fresh chem/star San (mild acid).

Don't just spray down the containers, fill them completely.

Soak everything you think might be infected in each solution. Leave for a couple of hours. Make sure every seal gets treated, every valve, every screw thread. Ball valves are a common problem, run solution through them while opening and closing repeatedly. Take your taps fully apart and soak.

The caustic will kill any acid tolerant bacteria and the chemsan will kill alkali tolerant bacteria.

As long as you are sure to soak every surface in these, nothing can survive so it must be something else. Hope that helps.

Can you caustic soda use on steel and plastic?
also isn’t that very dangerous stuff, I have a 4year old in the house.

is there anything else less dangerous?

 

[labrewski]

4 years of brewing strongest cleaner I've used is fairy liquid and bleach I've now given up on bleach

 

[Elliott 22]

What visible signs of infection do u have a few pics and I'm sure someone here can pinpoint it for u

There was no sign off infection in the pilsner (king keg chubby brand new fermenter) I fermented, had no off flavours before transfer when taking a sample, now after closed transfer into brand new keg with old jumper cable(possible infection point) it is starting to develop the off flavour.

new beer has it after tasting near full attenuation in my fermzilla had for 6 months, hop matter still on Krausen

 

[DocAnna]

VWP... yes it's old school, but it works, is designed to sterilise and isn't quite so hard to clean off as bleach. With bleach you are just guessing at an effective concentration for sterilising rather than sanitising. I'd also take apart the disconnects from the jumper line. As for the kegs, either take them all apart including the poppets from the disconnects to soak for an hour-ish , or run the solution through the dip tube and disconnects.

All that said - I'm with the others in saying I'm not wholly convinced by it being an infection based on it only occurring after packaging and in different containers. If you have a pH meter, check the pH of a sample every other day - if it's an infection you'd expect the pH to progressively change in most cases.

 

[An Ankoù]

One way to see what's going on would be to put all your cold-side gear to one side. Buy a simple plastic fermenter with a lid from Wilco and run a brew into it. No infection can come from the kettle since the beer's boiled there. Ensure that everything you use after the boil has not been used before.
If the off flavour persists, you can be sure it'snot due to an infection.
Thereafter, it;s a process of elimination.

 

[thegrantickle]

Can you caustic soda use on steel and plastic?
also isn’t that very dangerous stuff, I have a 4year old in the house.

is there anything else less dangerous?

Yes you can, for short periods of time. No longer than 4 hours.

It's only dangerous if you drink it or inhale the vapours up close. But it's your call if you think you'll be unable to keep you're wee one away from it.

 

[chillipickle]

If you have a b and m store close to you, oxy active plus works very well, and is about £3 for 2kg.
I use a good scoop in my snubnose fv, let it soak for 1/2 hr to remove any debris.Empty and rinse a few times, then sanitise with chemsan.Touch wood works so far.

 

[Elliott 22]

One way to see what's going on would be to put all your cold-side gear to one side. Buy a simple plastic fermenter with a lid from Wilco and run a brew into it. No infection can come from the kettle since the beer's boiled there. Ensure that everything you use after the boil has not been used before.
If the off flavour persists, you can be sure it'snot due to an infection.
Thereafter, it;s a process of elimination.

That’s what I did with the keg king chubby as was brand new and was an extract beer so only cold side, tasted good when transferring yet now starting to turn guessing transfer cable (jumper at closed transfer was used previously) in to brand new keg from kegland

 

[Elliott 22]

If you have a b and m store close to you, oxy active plus works very well, and is about £3 for 2kg.
I use a good scoop in my snubnose fv, let it soak for 1/2 hr to remove any debris.Empty and rinse a few times, then sanitise with chemsan.Touch wood works so far.
View attachment 55237

I use chemclean or sodium percarbonate both the same thing and then chemsan

so unfortunately not sure that will help unfortunately

 

[Leon103]

Is it in every beer you have made. When you say extract do you mean liquid or dry?

 

[Elliott 22]

VWP... yes it's old school, but it works, is designed to sterilise and isn't quite so hard to clean off as bleach. With bleach you are just guessing at an effective concentration for sterilising rather than sanitising. I'd also take apart the disconnects from the jumper line. As for the kegs, either take them all apart including the poppets from the disconnects to soak for an hour-ish , or run the solution through the dip tube and disconnects.

All that said - I'm with the others in saying I'm not wholly convinced by it being an infection based on it only occurring after packaging and in different containers. If you have a pH meter, check the pH of a sample every other day - if it's an infection you'd expect the pH to progressively change in most cases.

I do have some vwp
I have been using chemclean or sodium percarbonate

I will do the jumper cable again, I did all that with the kegs and did a circulation wash withkeg cleaner through keg postswith pump and rinsed with clean water also did that to the fermzilla hence the frustration

I literally took it apart and cleaned everything

 

[Elliott 22]

Is it in every beer you have made. When you say extract do you mean liquid or dry?

Last 5 beers, not every beer ever
I do kit beers from extract and have been for 5 years

 

[Elliott 22]

Last 5 beers, not every beer ever
I do kit beers from extract and have been for 5 years

Liquid malt extract kits
Last one was festival New Zealand pilsner
I have made before with no problems

 

[foxy]

If you have stripped everything down including the valve soaked in an alkaline cleaner followed by a rinse and then a no rinse sanitiser you should be good to go. The clean should take in everything, posts, disconnects, tubes and equally important the blow off tube. I had an infection recur and the only thing I hadn't cleaned was the blow off tube. Once I had cleaned that everything was good.

 

[chillipickle]

Just a long shot here, do you use a temp controlled brew "fridge" ?

 

[Elliott 22]

If you have stripped everything down including the valve soaked in an alkaline cleaner followed by a rinse and then a no rinse sanitiser you should be good to go. The clean should take in everything, posts, disconnects, tubes and equally important the blow off tube. I had an infection recur and the only thing I hadn't cleaned was the blow off tube. Once I had cleaned that everything was good.

I did and the blow off tube was attached to the spunding valve was new

feel I’m spinning my wheels
Last clean for 6 hours and was all of my kegs and fermenters and all attachments apart from mable jumper cable although may have done that too