How to test how sanitary your process is.

[Archtronics]

Hey

saw this the other day and thought it was a good idea basicly you siphon off some wort before adding the yeast and put it in a airlock container. Then wait and see if you get signs of fermentation the longer it takes the cleaner your setup is in theory. :thumb:

Mark

 

[Darcey]

Hmmm it is an idea I shall test...

 

[klaus]

Whilst you are waiting for your sample to start fermenting or not, how safe is the bulk of your wort? If you keep to a thorough sanitising routine you should be ok. The main thing is that your utensils are clean.

 

[artiums_enteri]

I'm not sure I buy into this. Your procedure could be the most pristine in the world, but the fact remains you have just created a superb environment for wild yeast. By creating this sample wort and not inoculating it with a "house bug" or controlled yeast a wild bacteria will take hold and start fermenting. While sanitation is a key part, and one of the most important, establishing good yeast health is crucial as well. If we have a high enough pitch rate, optimal fermentation temp, and enough oxygen and nutrients for the yeast we've pitched then lag time should be minimal. This allows for our yeast to start consuming the resources we've put together for them, and become the big bug on the block. Even if a rogue yeast gets in there the environment will be undesirable for it to propagate and flourish. When yeast strains start battling over resources we see bad things happen.

If I leave a piece of cut up fruit on my draining board for a week I guarantee it will begin to ferment even though my wife and I keep the house very tidy. This does not mean the fruit is infected or my kitchen is unsanitary, it just means my careless behavior has created a perfect environment for wild yeast to survive. If I'd kept the fruit in the fridge in a proper container I'd probably get two weeks worth of snacking enjoyment from it.

 

[Aleman]

Doing a Wort Stability Test is a very good idea, however the method described is faulty.

First of sterilise (Disinfect is not good enough) a bottle. (1 Pint Dumpy milk bottle is ideal)
At the end of the boil run off about 1/2 a pint of boiling wort into the bottle, and cover with tinfoil or an airlock.

Now leave it in a warm place if nothing grows during the fermentation period than you can be sure that teh wort was free of bacteria before you transferred it to your FV.

I also like to do a forced fermentation test as well

Which is to run cooled wort into a bottle add yeast and allow it to ferment in a warm place (30C) . You can then get a handle on how much the main batch will attenuate to . . .before it finishes fermentation.

 

[artiums_enteri]

Now that makes a lot more sense. Doing this experiment in a controlled environment would prove more beneficial and educational than leaving a small amount of wort out to become infected. This would be a better way to prove your wort is indeed sterile prior to pitching.

 

[Archtronics]

Apologies I presumed most peeps would know the container and anything that come in contact with the wort needed sterilising and putting under an airlock.

 

[Swift Pint]

Doing a Wort Stability Test is a very good idea, however the method described is faulty.

First of sterilise (Disinfect is not good enough) a bottle. (1 Pint Dumpy milk bottle is ideal)
At the end of the boil run off about 1/2 a pint of boiling wort into the bottle, and cover with tinfoil or an airlock.

Now leave it in a warm place if nothing grows during the fermentation period than you can be sure that teh wort was free of bacteria before you transferred it to your FV.

I also like to do a forced fermentation test as well

Which is to run cooled wort into a bottle add yeast and allow it to ferment in a warm place (30C) . You can then get a handle on how much the main batch will attenuate to . . .before it finishes fermentation.

I'm a bit confused, I might be missing the point of the test. :wha:

Surely if you take the wort when its boiling its definately going to be bug free, so you are just testing how good you were at sanitising the bottle you put it in.

If you have poor sanitation then bugs will get into the beer at any point post boil, so if you take a sample just before you pitch the yeast then your control sample will have been exposed to the same chance of infection as the stuff in the fermentor (plus a syphon/wine thief).

 

[Bru4u]

It won't be sterile, just quite well sanitised, something will grow, it's just how long it takes to take hold gives you an idea of how clean your procedure, if a agar/wort is exposed to air for a second it's no longer clean and has picked up something unless you live in a pressure cooker. Never done it myself though but a forced ferment is something I do on big beers

 

[artiums_enteri]

I'm not sure the control sample and the wort going into my fermenter would actually be identical. The wort going into my conical never comes in contact with outside air. Everything on the cold side, hot side too, is closed transfer. On the cold side the wort or beer is always going to be pushed with closed C02 to get it from one vessel to another. My control sample it sounds like would be run off from the kettle into a container with an air lock exposing it to outside air as soon as it passes the ball valve. I use conical fermenters to avoid this, and because they can be pressurized. I'm just not sure the control sample would be a good example of what I've transferred to the fermenter.

 

[puravida]

This experiment is for people, like me, that boil and cool in open vessels.

It's designed to reveal issues with sanitation from the point the boil ends to when the wort hits the fermenter. That's all. But this is the stage the wort is at its most vulnerable. A FV is easy to sanitise so once the wort is in there it's pretty safe.

It's that period it sits cooling open to all the bugs in the air, around your sink, on your spoon etc that is under investigation.

Remember you're not adding yeast to this so any fermentation comes purely from bugs that you have not intentionally added!!!!

It s a good test.

 

[Bru4u]

And unless your using pure oxygen through an sanitised air stone or difuser air must be present for healthy yeast growth.
We are however digressing from the test, which is a good idea in my opinion. I too boil open, chill open but cover over with clingfilm when resting before transfer and add plenty of yeast which will outgrow what ever gets in and create a hostile enviornment for the bugs quite quickly

 

[artiums_enteri]

Introducing pure O2 using a sanitized infusion stone is the only way I oxygenate. Of course there is wild yeast in the air around my wort; why would I introduce that?

I agree this could be a fun experiment, but I still say if you are transferring through open means and adding O2 from the air around you that is part of your sanitation process. Sanitation is not just the use of chemicals.

 

[Archtronics]

This is only a rough judgement of an open process that I listened to in a brewing podcast, in there view if no noticeable fermentation happened within the first 24hrs after siphoning from the boil then you had a good system going that minimised the chances of an infected brew.

Artiums as I understand yours is a completely closed system under pressure? Would be interesting to see if anything did happen with yours if you did this test.

 

[artiums_enteri]

I plate my wort using a pretty high power microscope prior to pitching. I also use a similar instrument to count viable yeast cells after they have been sitting on a stir plate. These things are just part of quality control for me. I am of course a homebrewer, but 80% of my beer (about 75bbls a year) is contract brewed and sold before its brewed. Now I understand that we are homebrewers, and this is just a hobby, but I've always looked at it like this: we are making great beer, a lot of times better than commercial breweries, but what makes commercial breweries consistent batch to batch? A big part of the answer is sanitation.

If you listen to the to the brewing network jamil, tasty, and doc will all agree that sanitation is not just a matter of adding a few chemicals. It is keeping the brew house clean, installing a hepa-filter if possible, brewing only on optimal days when there is little to no wind and the neighbor is not mowing the lawn. It's also things like not introducing foreign microbes from outside air into the wort, keg beers and rack beers with sanitized equipment and minimize exposure to any outside air, make yeast starters not just for good attenuation but for sanitary reasons as well. Sanitation is nothing but stacking the deck in your favor so that when the beer does get infected, and it will no matter what you do, the rogue yeast won't have a chance create off flavors or affect fermentation.

This goes along with the difference between a novice and a master. It is written that a master carpenter can complete a job and draw the eye away from minor mistakes or compensate for minor mistakes along the way without affecting the end project. A novice must pay close attention to fixing each mistake because he hasn't yet learned the tricks of the trade to fix minor mistakes early on and keep them from being a disaster later. The same holds true in brewing I think. Yes, we are making beer at home, and it's probably not the most important thing in our lives, but that doesn't mean we should disregard good practices. It has always been my goal to be a master brewer, and through good sanitation maybe one day I'll get there.


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