How to make yeast stick to the bottom a bottle conditioned beer

[IPA]

Firstly as we are communicating in English you will want to use an English dictionary for definitions you desire clarity on, .

Here it is then
Oxford Advanced Dictionary
Quote "Amateur" person who creates something with artistic skill. That just about sums up my beer.!!
Have you ever been happy? or did you have a bad experience as a child?

 

[J]

Here it is then
Oxford Advanced Dictionary
Quote "Amateur" person who creates something with artistic skill. That just about sums up my beer.!!
Have you ever been happy? or did you have a bad experience as a child?

It would seem you are confusing archaic definitions with current.

Here:
noun
1. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.
2. an athlete who has never competed for payment or for a monetary prize.
3. a person inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity: Hunting lions is not for amateurs.

Despite being so very old you seem to be very uneducated. Most people know how to use a dictionary properly!

It is also pretty pathetic that you are unfamiliar with the generally accepted meaning of such a commonly used word.

Happiness is easy enough to find. However I am not in the habit of allowing old fools to go around mouthing off and spreading nonsense without appropriate challenge.

You could also look up 'moron' to understand better your place on the scale of human intellect!

 

[IPA]

Hi guys,

So I've had good results producing very clear beer with Isinglass and Auxiliary finings, however I still get loose yeast sediment in the bottom of my beer.
1) Is their a certain yeast strain which is sticky and will stick to the bottom of the bottle?

!

Hi
Here is the proof that the method I outlined before actually works. I up ended a bottle of bitter that had been fined and took this photo.

The Yeast by the way is WLP 037 and as you can see there is no more than a spray paint coat of yeast and it is clinging tenaciously to the bottom of the bottle and you actually have to use a cleaner to remove it! Despite what Mr Angry (aka James underscore UK) said in all his tirades of personal abuse you can actually use finings in bottled beer:lol:

 

[IPA]

It would seem you are confusing archaic definitions with current.

Here:
noun
1. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.
2. an athlete who has never competed for payment or for a monetary prize.
3. a person inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity: Hunting lions is not for amateurs.

Despite being so very old you seem to be very uneducated. Most people know how to use a dictionary properly!

It is also pretty pathetic that you are unfamiliar with the generally accepted meaning of such a commonly used word.

Happiness is easy enough to find. However I am not in the habit of allowing old fools to go around mouthing off and spreading nonsense without appropriate challenge.

You could also look up 'moron' to understand better your place on the scale of human intellect!

Please see my last post and then go back under the stone that you crawled from Bye Bye

 

[J]

Hi
Here is the proof that the method I outlined before actually works. I up ended a bottle of bitter that had been fined and took this photo.

The Yeast by the way is WLP 037 and as you can see there is no more than a spray paint coat of yeast and it is clinging tenaciously to the bottom of the bottle and you actually have to use a cleaner to remove it! Despite what Mr Angry (aka James underscore UK) said in all his tirades of personal abuse you can actually use finings in bottled beer:lol:

I did not say you can't use finings for bottles beer, I actually said you should. You clearly don't understand English well or you are simply a ******.

They type of finings what what I commented on. I said it is best not to use isinglass finings for bottle conditioned beer. I said do use Irish moss and I did not express an opinion relating to gelatine.

Anyone reading these posts can clearly see you have not been reading properly.

It is also amusing that you can't produce an underscore (use shift+hyphen).

I hope no one listens to you as you clearly can't even remember the content of a post you have just read. Your 'knowledge' clearly therefore will be largely nonsense.

 

[J]

Please see my last post and then go back under the stone that you crawled from Bye Bye

Now whose being offensive and angry lmao.

Temper temper...

 

[J]

Hi
Here is the proof that the method I outlined before actually works. I up ended a bottle of bitter that had been fined and took this photo.

The Yeast by the way is WLP 037 and as you can see there is no more than a spray paint coat of yeast and it is clinging tenaciously to the bottom of the bottle and you actually have to use a cleaner to remove it! Despite what Mr Angry (aka James underscore UK) said in all his tirades of personal abuse you can actually use finings in bottled beer:lol:

Again not proof.

Did you even use isinglass? I suspect you used gelatine as you suggested before!

I commented on isinglass finings in particular. Something you failed to understand!

In any case you didn't even bother mentioning your conditioning or storage time.

Isinglass prevents sediment from compacting well on bottle conditioned beer. I said nothing about gelatine and sediment you fool.

 

[J]

Hi guys,

So I've had good results producing very clear beer with Isinglass and Auxillary finings, however I still get loose yeast sediment in the bottom of my beer.

This is my technique, I want to sell my beer one day so thats why I'm trying so hard! I'm doing 12 litre test batches at the moment.

• Boil for 30 mins
• Protofoloc or Caragheen at -15 mins
• I use pellet hops at various times during the boil until the latest -5 mins.
• I then crash cool the copper with water/icepacks
• I then sieve wort into the fermenter through a metal kitchen sieve
• I leave most of the sediment at the bottom of the copper when pouring
• I then ferment for 4-5 days
• I then add Liquid Aux fining to the FV then put in the chiller to cool (around 8*C). I only slightly mix it as the currents from cooling should be enough to mix (apparently)
• I then add Liquid (pre-mixed) Isinglass to the bottom of the cask 24 hours later and siphon the beer from the FV to secondary cask which should mix with the turbulence of filling the cask.
• I siphon all of the beer from the FV to the Cask until I reach anything that isnt clear (usually the last litre or so in the FV)
• Cask is then put back into the chiller (around 8*C) for another day or so
• After another 24 hours I then add carbonation drops to bottles and siphon from the cask. At this stage the beer is very clear. I then cap the bottles and leave in in at room temperature for a few weeks to condition/carbonate.

So all seems to be going well until I go to pour it then I can see floating sediment in the bottom of the bottle.

1) Is their a certain yeast strain which is sticky and will stick to the bottom of the bottle?

2) Do you have any other tips to help reduce the sediment in the bottle so I don't have to be extremely careful when pouring? I don't use any kind of filter when I syphon from the cask, should I filter through a hop bag or something?

3) Does cold conditioning the bottles help to prevent sediment, will the bottles actually carbonate? Should I condition at room temperature for a few week then chill the bottles after that to pack the yeast down?

Thanks!

Hi again,

I have a few extra tips if you are planning to sell your beer eventually.

1.) I'm guessing from your boil time that you are not all-grain brewing. You will have to all-grain brew to get into the current artisan brewery market. Your boil time will then be more like 90 minutes.

2.) If brewing ale with the intention of bottle conditioning or cask conditioning, there is no need for your chilling to 8 Celsius step. The beer should generally ferment at 22-23 Celsius, after which it should be conditioned at fermentation temperature which is generally 22-23 Celsius. After this the beer should be chilled to around 13 Celsius for serving. At 8 Celsius and below unfiltered real ale will get a chill haze. Luckily that is way too cold for real ale anyway.

The only reason to chill to very low temperatures with ales is to deliberately create chill haze and then filter the beer to remove it. This is of course blasphemy to most real ale brewers, as it leaves you will a dead product with less flavour/aroma.

3.) As long as the sediment in your bottles is not excessive and is compacted you should not worry about reducing it. Customers will actually be suspicious of real ale if they cannot see some sediment at the bottom of the bottle. This is their 'proof' that the beer is live and bottle conditioned and not a filtered real-ale-wannabe.

4.) You will want to precisely temperature control everything to ensure a consistent result. A good digital thermometer is very useful.

5.) I assume you are taking gravity readings to be sure that fermentation has more or less finished before bottling. If fermentation was slow and was far from finished and then you bottled and then primed you may get a load of exploding bottles which customers will not forget.

6.) It's worth reading HMRCs beer duty notes. You need to calculate exact pre priming alc content of you beer and then do separate calculations to show exactly what extra alcohol will be produce by your priming addition. You then use this data to calculate duty payable using formulas provided. All beer must be accounted for, duty is due on the 25th of the month for all beer leaving duty suspension (leaving your warehouse essentially, unless it is recorded as destroyed). HMRC require a guarantor to allow you to do this or else they require you to pay duty immediately every time beer leaves duty suspension. It's complicated enough that it is only worth selling your beer if you are going to do so on a significantly profitable scale. Good news is that small breweries pay half duty! Bad news is that you have to pay duty on beer even if you give it away!

 

[Dads_Ale]

Now Now Boys.

A very interesting thread with some good advice from both parties. Definitely some ideas I will be looking into.

I have just poured this pint

and this is what is left in the bottle. (sorry not a great picture)

This is a pale ale that was bottled after only 7 day primary fermentation using S04 yeast. It cleared within 2 weeks although it is now just over 9 weeks. After initial 2 weeks at room temp the bottles were transferred to beer fridge set at 10c.

I also use US05 yeast and this does leave more sediment when bottled at 7 days and would probably benefit from longer in a secondary vessel. (I am impatient and hate leaving in the FV over a week)

This is the interesting thing about home brewing, everyone does it there own way.

Cheers
The Compton brewery

 

[J]

You guys.....right let's get back on topic. I'll try to summarise your advice. Thanks for the tips everyone.

Yes I all grain brew, but my boil time is only about 30-40 mins. There is no reason for a longer boil unless I want to get more bitterness from the hops is there? Why do I need to boil for 90 mins?

Advice summary:

1. Don't use isinglass for bottle conditioned beers, just use irish moss at -10 mins.
2. Condition in a keg or cask, rather than bottle condition and then syphon into bottles with some kind of counter pressure system. This seems complicated and I don't have the kit for this.
3. Dried yeast is better than liquid yeast (I use dried yeast - Safale s-04).
4. Someone recommended using WLP 037 yeast, but this is no longer available?

I'm keen to have a 1 week cycle from brew to bottle, so don't want to leave it in the secondary for additional days or transfer to a third, this seems excessive.

In the past I didn't use Isinglass and my beers were clearish, but it was not consistent.

Can I just use the Ancillary Adjunct fining and not use isinglass, will this help create compact yeast?

Eventually I want to sell a firkin or a bag in a box to a pub, so I want to learn the best method to sell to the trade, I'm only bottle conditioning at the moment to learn about the different flavours of grains and the different flavours of hops.

I've documented my recipes here - http://www.smallbatchhomebrew.co.uk

Lol. Yeah our little battle has been quite something hasn't it psml.

You want to boil for a good 90mins to ensure various compounds boil off and conversions take place.

Your mash time should be around 90mins too.

Pubs will take firkins (you can and should add isinglass to these). You can rack straight from primary to a cask but when bottling it is much better to transfer to a second vessle and give the beer a short while to clear there, even if just for a day of two. A third vessle is just excessive.

Most dried yeasts should compact fairly well for bottle conditioned ales. You just have to give them some time. You will probably want to bottle condition for a month at 22 celcius for 4% ale, more for higher percentage and less for lower. Two weeks should do it for cask at 4%.

Btw in the trade a cask has a shelf life of 3 months and a bottle about 6 for 4% ale. Higher the strength the longer the shelf life. Really strong beers can last decades.

I would go with Irish moss and patience for bottle conditioning. Be sure to measure your Irish moss carefully (8 grams for a 75 litre batch works great). It is also crucial to chill your beer fast after the boil or you will struggle to get clarity and have other issues. Defo buy a plate chiller for this but install a course filter before he chiller to keep debris out (I use a hop rocket for this which also functions as a Hopback). It is worth spending a little extra to get these things or you won't be able to deliver a consistent pint and business will be poor.

You may be able to use other finnings for bottle conditioned ales but I don't. I have no experience of any finings other than isinglass and Irish moss.

In any case most real ale will be sold in casks so you can use isinglass most of the time.

Another good tip is for real ale you will generally want to be using at least 500g of late addition hops per British brewers barrel (165 litres) of pale/bitter/Amber ales.

 

[J]

Now Now Boys.

A very interesting thread with some good advice from both parties. Definitely some ideas I will be looking into.

I have just poured this pint

and this is what is left in the bottle. (sorry not a great picture)

This is a pale ale that was bottled after only 7 day primary fermentation using S04 yeast. It cleared within 2 weeks although it is now just over 9 weeks. After initial 2 weeks at room temp the bottles were transferred to beer fridge set at 10c.

I also use US05 yeast and this does leave more sediment when bottled at 7 days and would probably benefit from longer in a secondary vessel. (I am impatient and hate leaving in the FV over a week)

This is the interesting thing about home brewing, everyone does it there own way.

Cheers
The Compton brewery

Lol.

Cheers! Enjoy that pint

 

[EskiBrew]

Lol. Yeah our little battle has been quite something hasn't it psml.

James - I find your attitude to be aggressive and uncalled for.

This is a friendly and respectful forum and I suggest if you cannot be polite and respectful while disagreeing with someone, you should find somewhere else to post.

EDIT: I have banned James for 2 days. If he decides to continue in this aggressive manner after that, please report and posts you feel need attention and we will investigate.

 

[J]

James - I find your attitude to be aggressive and uncalled for.

This is a friendly and respectful forum and I suggest if you cannot be polite and respectful while disagreeing with someone, you should find somewhere else to post.

EDIT: I have banned James for 2 days. If he decides to continue in this aggressive manner after that, please report and posts you feel need attention and we will investigate.

And your comment regarding the false accusation levelled at me?

Apparently it is okay for another person to insult me by accusing me of misinformation?

You have totally ignored the rude comments towards me. This is very poor judgement only caring about one side of a situation.

Had you actually read the full interaction?

It speaks volumes that you banned me but not the other member involved, who displayed arrogance and a lack of manners.

I don't tollerate false accusations and neither should I.

I reject your assessment as you do not mention the false accusations levelled at me, not do you mention the further offensive comments from the other party.

Personally I find your comments offensive as you make accusations and assessments either with bias or without fully considering the given situation.

I am perfectly polite unless a contrary attitude is more appropriate.

While we are talking about manners. It was very rude and inconsiderate of you to ban me for two days without seeking an explaination from me for my posts. This is very poor etiquette indeed and of you read the entire thread you will see why my posts contained the information they did and also why it was fair and just.

Banning someone without contacting them is extremely bad manners and is not compatible with a mature society. Cutting people off is not an intelligent way to make progress. You are not training dogs, you are dealing with human beings.

You also showed no regard for the member who was currently seeking my advice by essentially cutting him off for two days when he was not even involved in the disagreement.

Go ahead and ban me entirely. I have no interest in being involved with a 'club' where such bias and lack of morality exists.

 

[Chris2304]

I don't want to comment on the rights/wrongs of the specific case, but I just wanted to say that this forum has been incredibly useful to me and - I'm sure - many other beginners. I'm sure being a forum admin is a pretty thankless job, so I just wanted to say thanks to EskiBrew and the rest of the team.

 

[J]

I don't want to comment on the rights/wrongs of the specific case, but I just wanted to say that this forum has been incredibly useful to me and - I'm sure - many other beginners. I'm sure being a forum admin is a pretty thankless job, so I just wanted to say thanks to EskiBrew and the rest of the team.

Well said, I agree, and it is kind of admin to give their time.

However, one should always endeavour to cast judgement against others carefully to ensure fairness.

If adequate care cannot be given then judgement should be postponed until such a time as proper consideration can be given.

 

[pms67]

James

Have a beer mate :thumb:


It's all good, we are all brewers, some to a higher degree than others.

You are obviously 2 intelligent guys who will have to agree to disagree.

Both of you make good points and this brewers tiff has got out of hand.

The admin or mods can't allow this nonsense even though you feel you have been unfairly treated your knowledge would undoubtably be a loss to this forum.

Cheers and I hope we can move on and get on.

 

[Fil]

BORRING!!! if i was at all interested in being in the middle of a squabble i would volunteer to drive my pals kids to n from school.

 

[J]

James

Have a beer mate :thumb:


It's all good, we are all brewers, some to a higher degree than others.

You are obviously 2 intelligent guys who will have to agree to disagree.

Both of you make good points and this brewers tiff has got out of hand.

The admin or mods can't allow this nonsense even though you feel you have been unfairly treated your knowledge would undoubtably be a loss to this forum.

Cheers and I hope we can move on and get on.

I accept the overall sentiment, but admin should endeavour to be fair.

Perhaps a warning to both parties would've been more appropriate.

Anyway enough is enough. Issue closed as far as I am concerned, and can be put behind us all.

 

[J]

BORRING!!! if i was at all interested in being in the middle of a squabble i would volunteer to drive my pals kids to n from school.

Lol. Boring, most likely, and certainly a waste of everyone's time.

It's a shame that the useful content in this thread is now buried in what to most people will be irrelevant unpleasantries.

 

[Stevelmu]

Hi guys

I wanted some advice on my method.

I use Irish Moss in the boil as discussed.
Then put in fermenting fridge at 20c for two weeks.
Then add Isinglass to FV and reduce temp to 6c to crash cool.
After 3 days transfer to clean vessel, batch prime and bottle.

To date I have been happy with the clarity of my beer. Is it just luck and should i tweek my method?