Hop Tea vs Dry Hop...

[RobWalker]

could I get away with a hop tea for a really punchy ipa? I'd rather avoid dry hopping if possible, as I don't like to leave my beer in the FV for long - but is it worth just biting the bullet, or could a good hop tea after fermentation work?

 

[Ceejay]

Not tried hop tea, but I recently used some Cascade Hop Aroma oil and really liked it. Added it to the bottling bucket :thumb:

Just offering up a third option!

 

[wilsoa1111]

i reckon its possible to use that method but if after a really hoppy beer certain hops eg cascade argueably give different aromas and flavours if dry hopped vs heat extracted (hop tea or in kettle) a compromise i have used is to heavily hop in last few mins of boil leaving the kettle for 10 minutes without any heat (to get a good infusion) then chilling as normal then ferment, once ferment is stopping-v little airlock activity, day 3-4 etc do a dry hop and leave for 7 days, this ensures a though ferment and gets the hops in without spending too long in fvs

 

[rpt]

I have no experience of this but I thought a hop tea was to add flavour whereas dry hopping adds aroma (although that will affect our perception of the taste).

 

[professor beer]

My take on this after trying both at various stages of the brew is:
Aroma and taste seem to be best achieved by a strong hop tea added with the hops in it, a day or 2 before bottling/kegging. Dry hopping in the fermenter is a waste of hops as the CO2 dissolves the aromas and you loose it, dry hopping in the conditioner doesnt yield much either as you need loads of expensive hops that mostly float on the surface so only half the hop flower is submerged and the lower temps do not favour infusion.
The genius that is Thornbridge have invented something called a hop cannon which I would love to know more about if anyone has some inside information.

 

[calumscott]

Hop tea involved heat, heat will drive off the most volatile aroma compounds that dry hopping would infuse into your beer so you will get a different result.

Hop tea cannot be seen as a direct substitute for dry hopping.

 

[Strongarm]

I have wondered how the commercial places get so much aroma. I've taken to adding 3gr/l for dry hopping, which isnt cheap, but I've yet to get the aroma punch that a bottle of Punk IPA has, even when it's empty.

 

[calumscott]

I have wondered how the commercial places get so much aroma. I've taken to adding 3gr/l for dry hopping, which isnt cheap, but I've yet to get the aroma punch that a bottle of Punk IPA has, even when it's empty.

There's more to it than just the dry hop.

These American style heavy-on-the-hops styles need layers and layers of late additions - some suggest something like getting 75% of your IBU from late additions!! That's a LOT of hops. Basically you want additions every couple of minutes from 15 to 0...

I once put around 500g of hops into 19 litres of a 9.2% double APA to try to get close to Hardcore. It worked. It was much the same beer. Have a look for "35th prime".

 

[LeithR]

When I started AG brewing I tried dry hoping a couple of times and found that i had a white coating of what looked like dust over the top of the brew in the bucket. Altho I'm not absolutely sure that it was the result of dry hoping that caused what I took to be an infection since then I have added hop teas to my brews using a cafetiere and had no re-occurrence of this white coating. Have to agree with a number of posts that it takes a fair amount of hops to make a lasting impression on the aroma.

 

[morethanworts]

My take on this after trying both at various stages of the brew is:
Aroma and taste seem to be best achieved by a strong hop tea added with the hops in it, a day or 2 before bottling/kegging. Dry hopping in the fermenter is a waste of hops as the CO2 dissolves the aromas and you loose it, dry hopping in the conditioner doesnt yield much either as you need loads of expensive hops that mostly float on the surface so only half the hop flower is submerged and the lower temps do not favour infusion.
The genius that is Thornbridge have invented something called a hop cannon which I would love to know more about if anyone has some inside information.

If you use a hop bag, it should be weighted so that the hops are submerged (but ideally still with some space in the bag to get exposure). Loose pellets, which I like using too, sometimes need a gentle push to get properly wetted and submerge, but can produce terrific results given a few days (sometimes up to a week, I've found) to fully sink.

As regards temperature, I recently racked my Galaxy to a secondary when the gravity was low (1.009, after a week) but not quite stable, chucked in 50g Galaxy leaf in a weighted bag, kept it at 22C for two or three more days, before chilling down for another 5 or so and bottling (1.008 by then). It's got a cracking amount of Galaxy aroma. I wasn't aiming for a total hop bomb - just 100g Galaxy in total, though all from 15 mins onwards - but I'm pretty sure I got good value out of what I used.

 

[calumscott]

My take on this after trying both at various stages of the brew is:
Aroma and taste seem to be best achieved by a strong hop tea added with the hops in it, a day or 2 before bottling/kegging. Dry hopping in the fermenter is a waste of hops as the CO2 dissolves the aromas and you loose it, dry hopping in the conditioner doesnt yield much either as you need loads of expensive hops that mostly float on the surface so only half the hop flower is submerged and the lower temps do not favour infusion.
The genius that is Thornbridge have invented something called a hop cannon which I would love to know more about if anyone has some inside information.

If you use a hop bag, it should be weighted so that the hops are submerged (but ideally still with some space in the bag to get exposure). Loose pellets, which I like using too, sometimes need a gentle push to get properly wetted and submerge, but can produce terrific results given a few days (sometimes up to a week, I've found) to fully sink.

As regards temperature, I recently racked my Galaxy to a secondary when the gravity was low (1.009, after a week) but not quite stable, chucked in 50g Galaxy leaf in a weighted bag, kept it at 22C for two or three more days, before chilling down for another 5 or so and bottling (1.008 by then). It's got a cracking amount of Galaxy aroma. I wasn't aiming for a total hop bomb - just 100g Galaxy in total, though all from 15 mins onwards - but I'm pretty sure I got good value out of what I used.

Dry hopping absolutely *does* yield big increases in fresh hop aroma and flavour. The cool temperature is actually key. Heat will drive off the most volatile compounds and it is these that only dry hopping can impart in your brew. In a secondary FV there is very little CO2 escape so even if this were a concern, which I doubt anyway, it would be negligible.

I've taken to just dumping hops into 2ry FV and gently stirring to soak them.

Ideally I would dry hop with pellet every time mind. Chuck them in, rack after they've all sunk.

As for "a few days"... nah... if you want hop leave them a fortnight!

 

[nobyipa]

hop tea????
cannot possibly out wit dry hopping
cooking your hops is done in the boil

late additions etc
as Calum says dry hop for 2 weeks if using small amounts or as i do chuck in +100 gram dry hop with pellet or whole and cool to 15c they drop out in 4 to 9 days well up to 80% do by that time


so what i am saying is dry hop for better hop aroma flavour large amounts yield the result you want quicker 4 to 9 days smaller amounts take longer say 2 weeks to get the aroma oils etc out
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=52248

:drink: :thumb:

 

[morethanworts]

I found this, citing a citation here, from Stone Brewing... from this page

"A bit of warm (fermentation) temperature storage after dry-hopping helps to increase the dry-hop flavor. We get better dry hop flavor when we dry hop in the fermenter vs. dry hopping in a filtered (bright) beer tank where the beer is close to freezing temperature."

Interesting!

 

[nobyipa]

I found this, citing a citation here, from Stone Brewing... from this page

"A bit of warm (fermentation) temperature storage after dry-hopping helps to increase the dry-hop flavor. We get better dry hop flavor when we dry hop in the fermenter vs. dry hopping in a filtered (bright) beer tank where the beer is close to freezing temperature."

Interesting!

agghh but that post was from 2012
from your usual 18 19c ferment then re rack to secondary dry hop at 15c does it excellently 2014 now
the large amount of CO2 yeast activity etc present in the primary does mask the hop aroma all my high hopped beers smell the room out on opening
:drink:

 

[morethanworts]

I found this, citing a citation here, from Stone Brewing... from this page

"A bit of warm (fermentation) temperature storage after dry-hopping helps to increase the dry-hop flavor. We get better dry hop flavor when we dry hop in the fermenter vs. dry hopping in a filtered (bright) beer tank where the beer is close to freezing temperature."

Interesting!

all my high hopped beers smell the room out on opening
:drink:

If we get a stiff South-Westerly, I might just get a whiff of them from over here. : :lol:

 

[Duxuk]

I totally agree with Calumscott. You need layers of hops added at different times. I revolutionised my brewing by changing from additions at 60, 15 and flameout to 60, 20, 10 and flameout. i HAVE ALMOST ALWAYS DRY HOPPED AFTER ABOUT 7 DAYS, OR BEEN DISSAPOINTED. (bloody caps lock, I'm not retyping, just read it in a quieter voice in the head)
What I've found with dry hopping is that it makes a massive difference to the fresh hop qualities, but 20g has a very similar effect to 30g or even 50g. I'm just drinking a beer with 50g of dry hop (Citra), but now wish I had spread that extra 30g over the last few minutes and just used 20g dry hop. I think it would have had a far more dramatic effect. So that's me next brew decided.

 

[nobyipa]

I totally agree with Calumscott. You need layers of hops added at different times. I revolutionised my brewing by changing from additions at 60, 15 and flameout to 60, 20, 10 and flameout. i HAVE ALMOST ALWAYS DRY HOPPED AFTER ABOUT 7 DAYS, OR BEEN DISSAPOINTED. (bloody caps lock, I'm not retyping, just read it in a quieter voice in the head)
What I've found with dry hopping is that it makes a massive difference to the fresh hop qualities, but 20g has a very similar effect to 30g or even 50g. I'm just drinking a beer with 50g of dry hop (Citra), but now wish I had spread that extra 30g over the last few minutes and just used 20g dry hop. I think it would have had a far more dramatic effect. So that's me next brew decided.

yup citra is my next brew too :thumb:


viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52221

:thumb:

 

[Cactus Jack]

I found dry hopping with a puree very effective. Arguably get away with less hops for a dry hop. Found they soak and sink within a few days. :thumb: Grabbed the idea from here http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60340

 

[clibit]

Hopping at different temperatures and at different stages will all produce different results, obviously. I rarely dry hop now as I find it a PITA (I don't have the technology to deal with it well), I occasionally do a hop tea, which i find gives quite a lot of hop aroma but it dissipates quite quickly, you have to drink the bottles early, but this is a theory more than a fact. I am leaning towards the loads-of-late-hops in the kettle technique for when i want a hoppy beer. Little or no hops at the start of the boil, bitterness coming from the late additions, which then provide lots of flavour and aroma. And I used to like high IBUs, I'm moving towards more balance, and using hops for flavour/aroma in beers that suit that approach.

 

[Strongarm]

I found dry hopping with a puree very effective. Arguably get away with less hops for a dry hop. Found they soak and sink within a few days. :thumb: Grabbed the idea from here http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60340

I'm wondering if commercial brewers use different techniques too which yiled better aroma per gr hops. Would it be economically viable for them to be putting near 500gr of hops in ever 20-23L of beer they brewed?