Hop Addition Timings

[Ghillie]

Morning all, just thought I’d put this here for discussion.

So of late, when brewing hop forward beers, I’m using a different approach to maximise flavour.

Typically I used to do the classic 60 minute bittering addition, then add flavour with 30, 10 and flameout. Now however, I’m solely bittering with a neutral hop (Magnum usually). This gives my beer all its IBUs and then at 60 minutes I will cool to 65C and add a hefty dump of hops for flavour, steep with a gentle whirlpool for half an hour.

I’ve found this technique superior for flavour vs the classic approach and was wondering if many others are following a similar approach for their hoppy beers?

Cheers.

 

[Duxuk]

Funny, that. I was doing something very similar. Bittering at 60 mins then nothing until flameout, cooled to 80C with a steep, then cooling to pitching temp. I usually dry hop after 9 or 10 days. Now, though, I'm getting much bigger late hopped flavours by adding a good dollop of hops at 10 minutes, say 30 to 50g. I then do as before with a reduced amount of flameout hops. I invariably use 100g of hops late, so if it's 50g at 10 minutes I am left with 50g for flameout, usually dry hopping with another 50g of something aromatic like Amarillo or Citra.
My hop flavours now cling to the tongue far better.

 

[Ghillie]

Funny, that. I was doing something very similar. Bittering at 60 mins then nothing until flameout, cooled to 80C with a steep, then cooling to pitching temp. I usually dry hop after 9 or 10 days. Now, though, I'm getting much bigger late hopped flavours by adding a good dollop of hops at 10 minutes, say 30 to 50g. I then do as before with a reduced amount of flameout hops. I invariably use 100g of hops late, so if it's 50g at 10 minutes I am left with 50g for flameout, usually dry hopping with another 50g of something aromatic like Amarillo or Citra.
My hop flavours now cling to the tongue far better.

So you’re finding a 10 minute boil addition better than a steep for flavour?

 

[Mungri]

Been doing 60mins, 5mins, 2mins, flameout and dry hop after 9 days for the last few brews.
I like my hoppy pales and IPA beers and it seems to work well with these.
Might try the 10min addition and leave the 5min one out for the next brew as @Duxuk does, see if it makes any difference.

 

[samale]

I have started to drop all hops in the boil. I only add at less than 80 degrees then at dry hop. This is for hop forward IPA and pale ales. Last batch had 325g of hops.

 

[Braufather]

I do the same, since buying James Morton’s book. Although He still adds some 10 min or 5 min ones.

Yesterday’s brew I had a 260 grams in a 30 minute hopstand at 76c.

 

[MickDundee]

For IPAs and APAs I’ve been forgoing the 60min addition completely and doing 10mins, 5mins and flameout instead.

I need more hops but I think the benefits are worth the cost.

 

[Mungri]

For IPAs and APAs I’ve been forgoing the 60min addition completely and doing 10mins, 5mins and flameout instead.

I need more hops but I think the benefits are worth the cost.

I did this with the totally tropical pale I brewed last month. First addition @ 15mins. It's a nice drink and definitely bittered enough, it doesn't taste like it's got 250g of hops in it though.

 

[Braufather]

I know, I was quite disappointed with totally tropical. Didn’t taste juicy at all when I did it.

Need to give it another go.

In contrast, The disprportionately hopped came out great last time. Loads of aroma.

 

[Keats]

I’ve also recently started just adding the bittering hop (magnum or admiral) at the start of the boil and then nothing until after flame out and cooling to 80c before adding flavour hops. Dry hopped as usual four days before bottling. Tried the first bottle at weekend after two weeks carbonation and it is my tastiest beer yet.

 

[The Baron]

I very rarely use full blown bittering hops at the start of the boil nowadays and get all my IBU's from late additions say 30 to 5 minute additions especially for IPA's to get a higher amount of hops in

 

[ExpatBrewer]

I've been round in circles with this. Anecdotaley I found that hops added post-boil at sub 80ºC seemed to fade quicker. While they might initially seem to impart greater hoppiness into the beer they did also seem to fade away quicker and I did then wonder whether even a short boil might actually help 'lock in' flavour?

Interestingly, these tasters couldn't tell the difference between flame-out additions vs 49ºC hop additions:
http://brulosophy.com/2017/07/31/the-hop-stand-flameout-vs-120f-49c-exbeeriment-results/

This looks like it's one of those situations where theory and real-world results don't agree! But since reading this 'exbeeriment' I've tended to not bother with cooling wort before adding post-boil hop additions. It just seems that despite the theory in practice it doesn't appear to make any perceptible difference when subjected to a more scientific level of scrutiny.

 

[Duxuk]

So you’re finding a 10 minute boil addition better than a steep for flavour?

Well I'm splitting 100g of hops between a 10 min addition and a flameout steep instead of using the 100g at flameout. This definitely gives me more flavour.

 

[Duxuk]

I've been round in circles with this. Anecdotaley I found that hops added post-boil at sub 80ºC seemed to fade quicker. While they might initially seem to impart greater hoppiness into the beer they did also seem to fade away quicker and I did then wonder whether even a short boil might actually help 'lock in' flavour?

Interestingly, these tasters couldn't tell the difference between flame-out additions vs 49ºC hop additions:
http://brulosophy.com/2017/07/31/the-hop-stand-flameout-vs-120f-49c-exbeeriment-results/

This looks like it's one of those situations where theory and real-world results don't agree! But since reading this 'exbeeriment' I've tended to not bother with cooling wort before adding post-boil hop additions. It just seems that despite the theory in practice it doesn't appear to make any perceptible difference when subjected to a more scientific level of scrutiny.

Mmmmm! My own experiments don't agree! Cooling to 80C or below seems to preserve the late hop tastes better than adding at 100C . However, what you say about the flavour fading seems spot on. A 10 minute addition is giving me a bigger and, as you've said, a locked in flavour, which doesn't fade in a few weeks. I'll try a 50 g 5 min addition and 50g flamout cooled to 80 in my next brew. I'll report back around Brexit day, 31/10/2019

 

[The Baron]

Well I'm splitting 100g of hops between a 10 min addition and a flameout steep instead of using the 100g at flameout. This definitely gives me more flavour.

I agree D that's why I do additions late to get some flavour locked in and very late to get a load of hops in for IPA's rather than flameouts and whirlpools. I find that whirlpool etc does seem to fade quicker ala dry hops but ok for drinking beers young

 

[ExpatBrewer]

I've tended to drop the whirlpool/FO additions more recently and instead add them to the dry hop charge instead. I still include late boil additions (5 - 15 mins.) for that 'locked-in' flavour. Whether this approach is any better it's hard to say, it's all very subjective and to be honest I'm too lazy to bother splitting a batch and following up with a side-by-side comparison!

One thing I have wondered about with regard to these really 'cool' whirlpool additions is the duration of the steep. If several days is considered appropriate for a dry hop at say 20ºC to fully yield all it's hoppy goodness, then would it not therefore follow that at say 49ºC a post-boil hop charge would actually need a much longer steep time then just 15 - 30mins? Perhaps... even one day at that temp to achieve optimal extraction? It seems like what you're really doing in this situation is a warm, pre-fermentation dry-hop.

 

[Duxuk]

https://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/...MIhdPBrr6K5QIVikPTCh3VAwZ7EAQYASABEgJdyPD_BwE
I talked to my LHBS about Cwtch beer kits. You leave all the hops in for the fermentation period. He said it definitely seemed to add an extra element. Although I haven't brewed the kit I did do a couple of brews with the hops left in. I wasn't convinced. There was just an edge to them that I didn't like.

 

[Nicks90]

this is really interesting as i am about to do another SMASH with mandarina bavaria and its quite a delicate hop and i want to get the most out of the flavour.

if a lot of you are only adding hops at 30min or even flameout - why bother with a 60min boil?
Why not just use magnum for bittering at 30 min, boil for 30 only and then add the flavour hops at flameout - let it cool naturally to 80C and then add even more flavour hops for a steep or dry hop at day 7?

 

[Duxuk]

You do a 60 or even 90 minute boil to get a hot break where proteins will coagulate and can drop out. 30 minutes might not be enough to get this.

 

[foxy]

this is really interesting as i am about to do another SMASH with mandarina bavaria and its quite a delicate hop and i want to get the most out of the flavour.

if a lot of you are only adding hops at 30min or even flameout - why bother with a 60min boil?
Why not just use magnum for bittering at 30 min, boil for 30 only and then add the flavour hops at flameout - let it cool naturally to 80C and then add even more flavour hops for a steep or dry hop at day 7?

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/how_to_boil_wort