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Fleecer

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Hi,

I'm brewing a honey beer containing 4IB's of natural honey, with an OG of 1080. The recipe calls for wine yeast, so I pitched on Sunday at 20 degs C. It sat in my temp controlled beer fridge at the same temperature until Tuesday, motionless. I then added a sachet of beer yeast, but it's only shifted to 1072 today (Thursday).

Am I being impatient, or should I ramp up the temperature? (this happened to a Belgian I brewed recently, and I had to turn the temperature up to 25).

Cheers:wha::wha:
 
I'm surprised nothing has happened. Honey is easily fermentable so you should see more activity than that.

Have you checked the calibration of your brew fridge temperature controller?
 
A couple of things jump to mind, aeration of the wort and under pitching the yeast for such a high OG, Id have used 20+ grams, but they're just guesses. A teaspoon of yeast nutrient and a good stir might kick the yeast into life for you.
 
I'm also a bit confused, what was the full recipe? That might help us a bit. My braggot was 1.060 ish with 30 points from each of honey and malt, I forgot to add nutrient to account for the large proportion of honey but the dry belgian yeast coped fine without it.
 
The recipe was taken from 'Radical Brewing' by Randy Mosher, and is called 'Phunny you don't look Phrygian' raisin honey beer (though there's no mention of raisins in the recipe. It calls for the following:

Yield - 19 litres
Gravity - 1.080
Alcohol/Vol - 8.6% to 10%
Yeast - Wine
Maturation - 4 to 6 months

4.0 IB Pale Malt
1.5 IB Amber/Biscuit malt

Added to brew kettle at the end of the Boil
1.4 Litres Muscat grape concentrate
4.0 IB light flavoured honey

Today is day 9 and the wort has progressed much better, though with a higher gravity than I would've liked (1.022) - 7.54%. Unfortunately it's developed an eggy aroma. Having read numerous articles, I'm told that this will dissipate with time. Has anyone any advice on this please?

Cheers
Mick
 
Ah, brilliant I've made that recipe too but I chickened out and didn't add the grape concentrate after a few issues on the brew day. I've attached my amended recipe, altered grain bill to suit what I had in stock. I used a belgian yeast as that's what Dogfish Head uses for their commercial version, which wine yeast did you pitch originally? Same for the beer yeast. Some of them have the ability to kill of other yeasts, wine yeast tend not to do well with longer chain sugars which could account for the higher finishing gravity. Eggy aroma will be sulphur from the wine yeast, it will fade.

The "raisins" are from the muscat concentrate, muscat grapes are apparently used for raisins. Where did you get the concentrate? I couldn't find that variety anywhere. Also what kind of honey did you use?

Hope that helps, even though I think I asked more questions than gave answers. :-)

View attachment Belgian Braggot.pdf
 
Hi, due to the costs, I used a white wine kit on the recommendation of the fella in the homebrew shop. My mate's dad is a beekeeper, so he gave me the honey from one of his hives. I'm hoping it improves, as I'm not fancying over 20 litres of it as it tastes now! Thanks for taking time to respond to my message by the way.
 
The wine yeast was a standard white wine variety from Wilkinsons, whereas the beer yeast was a Muntons ale yeast
 
Any chance of a link to the kit, if it's available online? My braggot is a bit weird, it's a bit like a belgian blonde abbey ale, but the bitterness is non-existant so it's sweet and spicy from the yeast. It's hard to drink over half a pint at a time but it got bottled in 500 ml bottles. Think this was brewed back in February-March and I still have 20 or so bottles from the 40 I had, so at least it is getting drank slowly but surely.
 
Hi, due to the costs, I used a white wine kit on the recommendation of the fella in the homebrew shop. My mate's dad is a beekeeper, so he gave me the honey from one of his hives. I'm hoping it improves, as I'm not fancying over 20 litres of it as it tastes now! Thanks for taking time to respond to my message by the way.

Give it time. The last braggot that I made was also around 9% like yours and it didn't get really good until it was nearly a year old.
 
Ah cool, so you didn't find muscat grape either. I've got a kit of the same brand but went for their white burgandy. Apparently their Gewürztraminer variety makes a good mead / pyment.
 
Hi HBF, @Zephyr259, and @Fleecer,

This is my first post, so I apologize if it is very long and if I am using improper terminology. I'm bringing back this thread from almost 3 years ago because I am attempting this recipe 'Phunny You Don't Look Phrygian' Rasin Honey Beer from Radical Brewing as my first ever home brew.

I have done some research on brewing braggot and found this video had a lot of great information:


I have been able to find (but not yet purchase) all of the exact ingredients and have a few questions about this specific recipe and home brewing in general:

Background/Specific Ingredients:
- I was able to find Muscat Grape Concentrate so I will be using it
- I will be using Sage Honey as is requested by the recipe
- I was recommended to use Lalvin EC-1118 Champagne Yeast (to counter the sweetness of the ingredients and make it slightly dryer)
- Maris Ottter Pale Malt (Thomas Fawcett Malting)
- Belgian Biscuit Malt (Castle Malting)

I plan to use a brew kettle and carboy.

Recipe Specific Questions:
1) How did it turn out @Fleecer? @Zephyr259 you mentioned that it is sweet and spicy and hard to drink more than 500ml. Was it initially not great? Did it get better over time?

2) How long should I keep it in the carboy before I bottle it? Is 1 month a reasonable amount of time or is 20 days better?

3) What type of sugar should I add right before bottling?

4) The recipe says 4-6 months for maturation. I assume I will taste it at 4 months and see how it tastes but does anyone think this is the optimal time for consuming? @MrRook You said yours took a whole year to get good? Is there a maximum amount of time I should keep it in the fridge before finishing it?

5) What temperature should I keep the carboy at before bottling?

6) Should the bottles go in the fridge after bottling?

7) Do you think Champange Yeast will produce a satisfactory result? I did some research on this and found: "most wine yeast strains may have a hard time processing maltose, which is likely to land your brew on the sweeter and more full-bodied side of the flavour spectrum" Source: Making A Braggot - Basic Braggot Recipe

8) The Recipe says that the honey and grape concentrate should be added at the end of the boil. Does this mean once the temperature is below 112F?

9) What temperature did you boil the wort at? The video referenced above uses 160F.

General Questions:
10) How quickly should I cool the wort? Is faster really better? Is it worthwhile investing in an immersion cooler? I was considering simply using ice and cold water in my sink but my brew kettle has a thermometer near the bottom that I fear will be damaged if submerged.

11) Do I need to mash and then boil the grains or can I simply mash the grains? The video referenced above only mashes, the article referenced above says mashing for 75 min then and boil for 60 min after lautering, the recipe mentions nothing about mashing but just "at the end of the boil"

12) How important is sparging? Can I even do that if all I have is a brew kettle?

13) Is it ok to put the grains in the brew kettle without a brew bag if I have a kettlescreen in my brew kettle?

14) Should I be using Five Star and Star San for cleaning before brewing?

Any other recommendations would be great. I actually have not purchased any of the ingredients or gear yet so if you have recommendations I am open to suggestions.

Thank you so much! I am looking forward to being part of this community!
 
Wow, this will take a moment, but welcome to the forum!

Some of your questions make me think that this is your first time brewing all grain beer, have you brewed beer, or anything, before? This is not the easiest option if your starting out.

1) How did it turn out @Fleecer? @Zephyr259 you mentioned that it is sweet and spicy and hard to drink more than 500ml. Was it initially not great? Did it get better over time?
My brew was a bit weird, as I probably mentioned above (3 years ago) it was my 2nd brew on the grainfather and after getting a stuck mash I chickened out of adding the grape concentrate. So I got a 6% belgian braggot, when it was young, < 6months, it was nice, like a belgian blond but it could have done with more bitterness as it got a bit sickly even though it wasn't actually sweet, hard to describe, just unbalanced. The acid from the grape would have likely balanced it out which is why the recipe states a low bitterness, acid and bitterness together do not taste good. After 6 months mine seems to become very winey and darkened, I think oxidation got to it some how. At this point it really wasn't good to drink, too sweet.

2) How long should I keep it in the carboy before I bottle it? Is 1 month a reasonable amount of time or is 20 days better?
The simple answer is until the gravity is stable over several days. Given this is a 9% brew and is more of a wine than a beer it could take 3 - 4 weeks depending on how it goes.

3) What type of sugar should I add right before bottling?
Normal white cane sugar is fine.

4) The recipe says 4-6 months for maturation. I assume I will taste it at 4 months and see how it tastes but does anyone think this is the optimal time for consuming? @MrRook You said yours took a whole year to get good? Is there a maximum amount of time I should keep it in the fridge before finishing it?
Yeah, as a strong drink it's going to take a while to mellow and the flavours to meld

5) What temperature should I keep the carboy at before bottling?
Dependant on yeast as they all have different temperature tolerance. I'd get this one pretty cool before pitching yeast and making sure it doesn't get too hot while fermenting or you're going to get a mess of fusel alcohols and some very expensive drain cleaner. Likely pitch in the mid teens and keep to 20c at max I think.

6) Should the bottles go in the fridge after bottling?
No, keep them warm until carbonated and conditioned, at least 2 weeks to carbonate, maybe longer due to high abv. Then they'll condition better at cool room temp than in a fridge.

7) Do you think Champange Yeast will produce a satisfactory result? I did some research on this and found: "most wine yeast strains may have a hard time processing maltose, which is likely to land your brew on the sweeter and more full-bodied side of the flavour spectrum" Source: Making A Braggot - Basic Braggot Recipe
Maybe? There's a lot of simple sugar in this recipe as it's basically 1/3 malt, 1/3 honey and 1/3 grape so a wine yeast should make a good effort as the maltose is gonna be low. Apparently, Lalvin ICV K1-V1116 doesn't struggle as much as most according to that article. Using a beer yeast is risky as they might not be happy with so much simple sugar. I think I'd mash on the low side and use wine yeast.

8) The Recipe says that the honey and grape concentrate should be added at the end of the boil. Does this mean once the temperature is below 112F?
End of the boil is once your done boiling and about to start chilling. I'd not do that here as it's going to cook off the flavours and aromas from the honey and grape, I'd add them once the wort is cool. There seemed to be contention about honey and if you need to treat it with heat or metabisulfite to kill or wild yeast, I think several of my meads just got mixed and pitched with yeast and they were fine.

9) What temperature did you boil the wort at? The video referenced above uses 160F.
Boiling is boiling, so 100c or 212F, altitude dependent, but that's not much of a concern in the UK.

10) How quickly should I cool the wort? Is faster really better? Is it worthwhile investing in an immersion cooler? I was considering simply using ice and cold water in my sink but my brew kettle has a thermometer near the bottom that I fear will be damaged if submerged.
Faster is better as less risk of contamination, it also affects hops but that's not a concern in this recipe. There is a no-chill method where you transfer to a gerry can after the boil then seal and leave to cool. Small batches are ok in a sink, a full 5 gallons will be tricky.

11) Do I need to mash and then boil the grains or can I simply mash the grains? The video referenced above only mashes, the article referenced above says mashing for 75 min then and boil for 60 min after lautering, the recipe mentions nothing about mashing but just "at the end of the boil"
You need to mash these grains to convert sugar to starch, you then drain the wort (lautering) and boil the wort, do not boil the grains or it will extract all the tannins and you'll end up with something like overbrewed tea.

12) How important is sparging? Can I even do that if all I have is a brew kettle?

13) Is it ok to put the grains in the brew kettle without a brew bag if I have a kettlescreen in my brew kettle?
Sparging helps with efficiency as it rinses more sugar out the grain, you don't have to do it and sound like you're doing brew in a bag which traditionally doesn't sparge and mashes which all the water needed for the brew. I don't know what a kettle screen is, too many results from google. You need a way to remove the grains from the wort after mashing. Simplest option would be a mesh bag designed for brewing, just dont apply heat with it in or you'll probably melt it.

14) Should I be using Five Star and Star San for cleaning before brewing?
Cleaning can be done with most things as long as it's rinsed thoroughly afterwards. You'll need to sanitise anything that comes in contact with the chilled wort after the boil is done, that's were Star San come in, it's your sanitiser and doesn't need rinsed afterwards, also, don't fear the foam. :-)

Think that covers everything. But also what I know now is that fermenting this could be a pain, mead needs nutrients and carefully managed, wine and beer are easier. Hopefully, they will give the yeast what it needs to perform well here.

Good luck. I'm sure others will be along with advice too.
 
Awesome answer @Zephyr259! I am very grateful to your detailed and super quick response. A++++

You are right, I have never brewed anything before. This is my first time fermenting anything.

until the gravity is stable over several days

How do you measure the gravity once it is in the carboy? I know that it is measured with a hydrometer but do you open the carboy and take some out with a syphon? Do you measure daily? Do you put the liquid back after measuring?

Normal white cane sugar is fine.

Is there any reason another type of sugar would be used?

Then they'll condition better at cool room temp than in a fridge

How long do you condition before putting into the fridge? Should conditioning temperature also be ~20C or is it ok to be higher? Sometimes my house gets to 23C.

I don't know what a kettle screen is, too many results from google

r49.jpg

Product Description: "Turn any pot into a mash turn...allowing you to mash or strain out whole hops from the boil (these tend to clog when using a lot of pellet hops)"

fermenting this could be a pain, mead needs nutrients

Are things added to the fermentation vessel if the yeast is not happy? Is it common practice to check something daily?

Thanks again! I'm sure I will have other questions and I'm looking forward to other's thoughts too.
 
Right, as a new brewer you're jumping in right at the deep end with this one...

I'd have a look at this thread as it's a great start to all grain brewing.

You measure gravity with a hydrometer, good starting advice is to ignore the beer for 2 weeks then test it twice over 2 - 3 days, if the reading is the same you're good to bottle. Once you've experience you'll figure out timings that work for you. For example, I know that I can start checking my low abv beers at around day 7 because I've used the same yeast so many times. Safer not to tip the sample back in as its an infection risk, a turkey baster is a good way to get samples.

Other sugars can be used, Americans like to use corn sugar it seems. The amount used for priming is unlikely to do much for flavour so a cheap and 100% fermentable sugar is easiest.

Trick answer here, because I never put beers in the fridge other than to chill them a bit in the summer. I have a cupboard which remains relatively cool all year round so I store them there. I'll keep them somewhere warm, preferably the FV chamber at 20c until I'm happy they're carbonated, I'll often check after a week then again at 2 weeks, or I ignore them for 3 weeks because I'm on an oil rig and they're good when I'm home. Because my cupboard is cool they condition well in there. Beers will take a variable amount of time to reach their peak based on abv, hopping, malts used. A beginner rule is often 2+2+2; 2 weeks fermenting, 2 weeks carbonating, 2 weeks conditioning.

That filter should allow you to treat your kettle as a mash tun, but you'll need to drain the wort into something (while it's hot) then clean out the grain and transfer the wort back in. Probably easier to use brew in a bag? That filter will help you strain out hops after the boil regardless.

Mead has come on a long way in recent years, previously it took months to ferment then easily a year to condition. Folks now stagger nutrients over the fermentation as well as stir the CO2 out of solution every day and this allows them to be turned around in weeks/months. But you can't really do this to beer as it'll oxidise, also the nutrients may not be as needed since wort and grapes have plenty nutrients for the yeast, Yeast nutrient (DAP or Fermaid) may help and shouldn't hurt unless you're very sensitive to their taste like I am.

Personally, I'd do a simple modest abv pale ale to start with to get a hang of things. Most folks would start with extract kits which just need mixed and fermented as that lets them learn cleanliness and sanitation and how to control fermentation to get a good beer before the extra time and work of actually brewing. Also this "beer" is very expensive for your first try.
 

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