Homebrew pub??

[graysalchemy]

The best beer I have had this year was from our fellow brewer UnclePumble and his Cheshire Brewhouse. :thumb: :thumb:

I am itching to try his Galaxy Blues

That was the one :thumb: It was quite simply the most amazing beer full of flavour.

I think he was brewing an antipodean blue at the time I visited which was made with NZ hops, I think.

He is certainly a brewer who knows what he is doing. :thumb:

 

[The Goatreich]

You just reminded me to get in touch with him and see if he mails bottles of it out.

 

[calumscott]

Unfortunately the government wants it piece of every pie and it wants to dictate how you make that pie. They strangle all the love and all the fun out of it and this is what your idea is up against.

Or maybe they just want to regulate who can make, distribute and sell intoxicating substances to the public and the current market supply chain is such that big players are the norm and the legislation and regulations reflect that... :wha:

And we all know what happens to the bigger players they sell there 'products' to off shore companies to sell it back again avoiding paying corporation task. Were as smaller companies can't wipe their proverbial arse without incurring red tape and paying disproportionate amounts of tax.

Indeed, because they have the resources to be able to do it.

The corporate (not corporation) tax system is a nightmare and needs to be simplified in the most utilitarian fashion. If you run a business in a country, it should be a separate entity for tax purposes and it's income and outgoings excluding any income and outgoings to "group" companies in other tax jurisdictions. If you buy materials into the UK company or sell product or service out of the UK company then those are the figures on which tax must be calculated. The Starf**ks model of varying the "franchise fee" to the foreign head office to be "exactly" the same as the UK profit would no longer be possible...

 

[TRXnMe]

Personally, I think it could work.

I know of a couple of micro brewery pubs that are doing well around here. You would need a designated brewer to supervise all commercial brews, but you could still brew bulk version of my beers if I turned up with a recipe you approved of.

The pub would sell 'regular' beers (your recipes) and 'guest' beers (home brew recipes) over a licensed bar.

You could charge for brewing lessons, with a rebate / payment if the pupil developed a brew you wanted to buy from them and use in bulk, imagine that as incentive to take brewing lessons, your ale on a bar and money in your pocket for your skill in developing it :)

Alternately, if an AG brewer has a recipe you like and they want to try it out as a commercial brew you let them use your kit and grain, subject to taste test, on a one off basis, with confidentiality confirmed. You let them do a supervised brew, sell 99% of the results over your bar and the prospective micro owner gets a large sample. This might also work for people like me who enjoy positive feedback on ale and have a good brew they want to share.

Also, do rooms or allow camping, so the visiting brewer can sleep off the night after in safety, extra space for paying friends, and you have a scecondary source of income.

Well, that's me thinking out loud, I'm now wondering how much the house is worth, and what a local unnocupied pub would cost me to buy and put back in working order with a decent size brewery on site! Fantasy land for me, but a nice fantasy none the less :)

 

[Edindie]

I like the camping idea. My brother took his wife to a campsite where they stayed in a yurt (all made up with a bed, furniture, a wood burning stove etc) and had a barbeque from the campsite owners pigs / lambs. Said it was really good.

But that would mean a country pub rather than one in a town where prospective brewers could invite their friends to sample their beers. I guess it's now been boiled down to this:

- red letter day style guided brews for customers to take home; and
- a brew pub which serves 50% of its beers which have been brewed by someone else. There would have to be a fair amount of theatre about it, say a picture of the brewer on the pump, naming rights, etc.

Perhaps you could include the two if the head brewer person was more active in the experience day. As long as the resulting beer was good.

 

[Titch]

the idea is good, i bet we have all thought about it
but location location location

some nice pubs either have no space or are already taken
trust me ive looked

but this is a good thread thanks for starting it

 

[TRXnMe]

I like the camping idea. My brother took his wife to a campsite where they stayed in a yurt (all made up with a bed, furniture, a wood burning stove etc) and had a barbeque from the campsite owners pigs / lambs. Said it was really good.

But that would mean a country pub rather than one in a town where prospective brewers could invite their friends to sample their beers. I guess it's now been boiled down to this:

- red letter day style guided brews for customers to take home; and
- a brew pub which serves 50% of its beers which have been brewed by someone else. There would have to be a fair amount of theatre about it, say a picture of the brewer on the pump, naming rights, etc.

Perhaps you could include the two if the head brewer person was more active in the experience day. As long as the resulting beer was good.

It doesn't have to be camping, in a city find an old hotel and do rooms, give a reduced rate to the 'guest' brewer and a slightly less reduced rate to a couple of their mates, the reduction should be recovered via the bar :)

Theatre a definite, and include somthing along the lines that the guest brewer gets half price beer for the duration of their brew, that should get them to bring their mates in on a regular basis.

You'd need to do food as well, apart from the city centre 'get pissed' pubs the only ones surviving and prospering are doing reasonable food at sensible prices.

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

You'd need to do food as well, apart from the city centre 'get pissed' pubs the only ones surviving and prospering are doing reasonable food at sensible prices.

Expand it a little more, and include not just beer/wine-making but other home-made foods/drinks like chutney, jam, cheese, bread, etc. and that could work well. Diversity will boost demand, and there's certainly no shortage of people with experience on THBF.

 

[Dronfieldbrewer]

So the brewery owner holds the licenses, buys all the malt and hops for other would be brewers to have a punt...I think the simple answer is no...
Brew pubs swap beers between themselves to get it as cheap as possible (would be cheaper)...thats how it works, far better than what you suggested.
To get into the commercial game, might I suggest that you go to a good local micro, set up a deal to "Cuckoo" by hiring their kit...far easier

 

[Drunken Horse]

I guess your best bet would be a homebrew club in a pub. I couldnt see any benefit for a pub in alliwing all comers to brew on their premises when they could just brew their own.

 

[Pjam]

There was a Pub in Victoria, near Chelsea bridge that brewed beer on the premises ....... good it was too. I only just found out they don't brew anymore Tis a poncy restaurant now

 

[Dano]

My memory is failing but I think it was called the pimlico arms? Pimlico road just down from the barracks, sold a bitter,light, porter and a lager if I remember rightly, 20 years since I was last there, it had old flea-bitten sofas and sawdust on the floor, one of my favourite pubs ever, could only manage about four pints of porter, I seem to remember brew days were Thursdays, the smell down pimlico road was wonderful, used to have breakfast in Pete's cafe a few doors down, doubt that's there anymore either

 

[Pjam]

if I remember rightly, 20 years since I was last there,

That sounds like the place. it was probably 20 years since I was there too ........ easy to see why they had to close! :lol:

 

[TRXnMe]

So the brewery owner holds the licenses, buys all the malt and hops for other would be brewers to have a punt...I think the simple answer is no...
Brew pubs swap beers between themselves to get it as cheap as possible (would be cheaper)...thats how it works, far better than what you suggested.
To get into the commercial game, might I suggest that you go to a good local micro, set up a deal to "Cuckoo" by hiring their kit...far easier

Are you saying it wouldn't work because no one is doing it, or that it's been tried and failed?

The concept isn't to try out being commercial, it's to run a mico brewery pub and make extra money by allowing 'guest brewers' to use your kit. This is along the lines of the 'cuckooing' you mention, but with the potential benefit that you get a guest ale for the bar, if it's any good. How the merry hell you manage the several barrels of beer the guest made if it's not what you want to sell poses a serious problem, sampling of the proposed brew would be an absolute must.

Additional profit might then be coming from growing your customer base through the friends and family of those folks who want to give it a go, and impress their friends by having their home brew on a commercial bar.

There are a couple of micro brewery pubs doing something similar, in that they sell 'brew day participation', the basics being that you pay the landlord a fee and then turn up early doors, provide free labour for the brew day and get a free meal and a few bottles of the beers made by the pub to take away with you. The benefit being sold to the guest brewer is to learn how all the kit works and see what is required to brew several barrels rather than one or two fermenting vats. Every offer like this I've seen also has the offer of a reduced price room for the night before, and if required the night after.

The concept from the OP was similar, but with the twist that you could brew an ale of your own design in quantity, the drawback being if it's not saleable you're up a creek without a paddle

From my, somewhat simplistic, perspective there are a huge number of problems with getting this setup going, not least finding the cash for the pub and micro brewery equipment.

Even if you have a few hundred thousand sitting around you then need the relevant licenses and permits to be allowed to do this legally.

Once you're up and running, how many home brewers actually brew AG? of those how many are actually commmitted enough to want to make several barrels of the stuff?

It's a nice concept, but would have to be based on the pub making money off your own ales, and using the guest faccility as a come on for birthday parties for brewers, or summat along those lines.

Oddly, I still like the concept, but two things will keep it a fantasy for me; I'd need a lottery win to be able to give it a go, and then I know it would have to be in a major city, which as I personally hate cities does rather rule me out of trying it

 

[fizz head1982]

There was a Pub in Victoria, near Chelsea bridge that brewed beer on the premises ....... good it was too. I only just found out they don't brew anymore Tis a poncy restaurant now

And the very reason its no longer there is cos you all forgot about it. Businesses dont survive because they do a good service, have good prices and you love them... They survive cos they make lots of money.

I was a one man band Electrician, it lasted 6 months... I tell people I am an unemployed sparky and they dont understand, "electricians earn a good wage", "electricians always have some work", total balls I am afraid. In reply I would ask them, when was the last time you or anyone you knew ever hired an electrician... - then the penny drops.

I pushed on as hard as I could and was about 3 days from handing the keys of my house to the bank in the end. I had good customer service, (I was polite, presentable, cleaned up after myself and left everything as I found it), probably the best prices in town for the quality of work I did (everything to regulations, done properly, all cables neat and tidy and clipped or fixed,) I calculated usually I was making about 6 quid an hour usually (because i went the extra mile on all jobs)...

My dream became my nightmare. So please before you do anything, plan, investigate and calculate. O and make sure you can support the business from your own pocket for at least 2 years! Don't let what happened to me happen to you, my life is still recovering from it and it was 18 months ago.

Unfortunately, the masses want what ever they can get for as little as possible... and what they want is not niche.


Sorry to pee on your parade but I think you need to look at the cold hard facts. If I ever ran a business again it would need to be bullet proof 24 karat gold idea and I would go big! but either way, its always a gamble.

Good luck! :drink:

 

[Drunken Horse]

The Baltic Fleet pub in Liverpool has the Wapping Brewery in its cellar. They do a few good ales including a few seasonal ones. By doing so the pub has built up a reputation bringing people in, while making a bit of extra cash in the process.

Why would a pub allow randomn people come brew if they could just follow that model? No guarantee that the beer will be good (in fact 1 too many bad brews might be bad for business), I could see them maybe letting you use their gear for a fee when they arent using it but I can see too many problems for the pub too do much else.

What might be a more viable option is if a brewing club got on well enough to rent a small premises and chip in together for the equipment then make brews to sell under a microbreweries name. That would require a great deal of trust and honesty to work though.

 

[Darcey]

It does sound like a good idea to me!

If you installed something like at 3-2bbl plant that would feed the pub assuming you are brewing 3 times a week or so. Also build a suitable 50-100l plant that people can do 'guest' beers on. This way its a reduced risk and you are not effecting your main plans production and down time if a beer cant be sold, it will also be more easily understood and used by your guest brewers. If you are only filling 2x9g casks or a 50l keg per brew you are getting a changing 'guest' home brew range every week not being stuck with 8-10 x 9g of a beer as a guest which may take a month to shift.

Once you are comfortable with the new kit its always an option to up scale successful beers to a larger scale and sell them externally or swap them with other brewery's for your external guest beers. Also consider bottling these small brews then you can offer mixed packs and a 'range' of bottled beers.

How you cost, fund and price is up to the business model and the location you have.

D

 

[bobsbeer]

The brew pub concept seems to be quite popular. We have three round my way. The Orange Tree in Kirkby Lonsdale, although their beer is not brewed on the premises, The Watermill at Ings where you can watch the beer being made from the bar, and Burgundies in Kendal. They are another that have a brewhouse attached. There may be others, but all are popular. So I think if you can find the right location at the right price you could be on to a good thing. How much money is made as a return on your investment I don't know, but the real ale pubs are the ones that seem to be surviving.

 

[fizz head1982]

Hang on, what about labour...

Your gonna brew three times a week( + workshops?) So lets say thats 6 hours. Times 3 is 18...

Now you are gonna open the pub lets say, 4 till 12 plus clearing up... So 4 till 01:30 in the morning. 9.5 hours... Opening every day. 7 days times 9.5 is 66.5 hours.

So 18 hours of brewing plus 66.5 hours open and serving is 84.5 hours every week, not to mention taking deliveries, faffing about with co2, cleaning spew off the bog...

I reckon thats easy 100 hours a week work. Make sure it has a bed room! :lol:



I think a pilot scheme of this would put some reality into it. Why dont you and your mates build a small kitty to make a brew... Then come round on sunday and drink it in your garage... Pay for the pints at proper projected prices, 3 quid a pint?, and see how you feel about it. Hire one of you, and take turns etc in such a way all the profits go back to 0 for everyone... Or use monoploy money to see how it would work... Roleplay it... :lol:

 

[Pjam]

We are the last people to ask about pubs :shock: I'm part of the problem :shock:

All my mates go to pubs. I don't. I brew my own :drink: