HMRC Law - no wort allowed?

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fbsf

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Now, I might be reading this wrong but let's just say you finish your mash, and store a couple of 2L bottles of the wort - pre-hop - in the freezer for use as starters.

Does this count as an offence under Section 2.9 subsection D) ?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/spirmanual/SPIR3080.htm

It states that you must be registered as a brewer. I thought that was removed in the late 60s when homebrewing was legalised?
 
The key is whether it is 'fit for Distillation'. ABV of wort you would use in a starter probably wouldn't be fit for distillation. Probably a grey area but very unlikely to get done for it if there was only small quantities and no other evidence of doing something you shouldn't.
 
Be careful not to tread on thin ground but as I see it if its wort not fermented its alcohol free so if its frozen its not breaking any laws as in the D word it's only like freezing fruit juice
 
31bb3 said:
I see it if its wort not fermented its alcohol free so if its frozen its not breaking any laws as in the D word it's only like freezing fruit juice
That's what I thought...without yeast it's just a sugary liquid..

BB
 
It's this bit that is interetsing: "not being a vinegar-maker, brews or makes or has in his possession any wort fit for the D word"

At the point that we've mashed, we have in our posession a wort. Or indeed, the point at which we've mixed malt extract with water in the case of extract brewers...

What is it that makes it "fit for the D word"? I realise under the terms of the forum I'm on slightly dodgy ground here, so apologies in advance for that. I don't mean to contravene, I'm genuinely interested. :?
 
not sure, would people involved in the D word continue to refer to wort as wort after its been fermented perhaps?
I suspect its more of a language / terminology thing.
 
The wort is not fit for D********** as no yeast has been pitched . . . It is just sugary liquid . . . Try heating a solution of honey and water . . . you will reduce the volume certainly even to the point where you end up with honey caramel / toffee . . . but at no point is it suitable for D**********. Spirit mash is actually quite a low gravity when it is fermented, and only ends up at about 10% alcohol, just like our strong beers.

Edit: Time to lock the thread perhaps :hmm:
 
Hmm, so how does that apply to the spirits produced by the alcotec kits then - surely they are a prime candidate for that process as they are effectively an unflavoured fermented liquid?

I'm guessing a reasonable volume of that stuff in its unflavoured state could fall foul of that law?

Edit - apologies if I've crossed any boundaries - it was more about that document than the process. Feel free to lock.
 
That doc is a bit of a hack by HMRC from the legislation (The Alcohol and Liquor Duties Act 1979 or "ALDA" for short).

I imagine that clarity is given within that Act, The Finance Act (which supersedes quite a lot of it) and another one whose name escapes me at the moment.

I enjoy reading that sort of stuff because it's so logical when you get into the bowels of it... I'll let you know if I find anything...
 
Right, I think I've figured it out...

ALDA says that beer is (and, of course that you can homebrew same):

“Beer” includes ale, porter, stout and any other description of beer, and any liquor which is made or sold as a description of beer or as a substitute for beer and which is of a strength exceeding 0.5 per cent., but does not include—
(a)black beer the worts whereof before fermentation were of a specific gravity of 1200° or more;

It also states that black beer is:

“black beer” means beer of the description called or similar to black beer, mum, spruce beer or Berlin white beer, and any other preparation (whether fermented or not) of a similar character;

Now, these names, although not completely alien to me, left me scratching my head a little...

So with a bit of googling the thing they have in common is that they are all historically speaking at least, more, well, "country" brews, gruits and the like, bittered and flavoured with stuff other than hops... or not at all...

Now examining the phrase in question...

makes or has in his possession any wort or wash fit for distillation

I think the key word here is "fit". We could interpret that as "well, anything with ethanol in it *can* be distilled". But I don't believe that's what's intended. I think fit should be taken to mean "adapted or suited" or "prepared and ready".

Consider what would be an ideal candidate wort or wash and very quickly you see why the exclusion to the term "beer" exists!

So, in short, I would say that the worts that we might have kicking around, unhopped even, unless you prepare them to an original gravity of 1.201 or higher are perfectly fine...

...Indeed, thinking back on my Ghost Deer cloning hypothesis, that too would be fine, I think, being a hopped beer, a more traditional ale-y kind of thing, just brewed beyond the 1.200 cut off in the exclusion from the definition of beer. Being not of the black beer, mum, spruce beer or berlin white beer or similar style suggests that it would be fine...

Interestingly, the alcotec wash kits could land you in bother if your OG goes beyond 1.200!!! Brewing a wash seems to fall into the spruce beer or similar category according to wikipedia:

Alcoholic spruce beer may also be made from sugar and flavoring from the spruce tree. Leaves, small branches, or extracted essence of spruce are boiled with sugar and fermented with yeast. Two different sources of sugar may be used, either molasses or white refined sugar.

Basically, if you are going extreme wash brewing, take a dated photo of your OG reading of less than 1.200...

...as you were chaps.
 
fbsf said:
Excellent - cheers for clearing that up Calum!

Just remember that is only my interpretation of the thing using a bit of common sense and no legal training whatsoever...

:thumb:
 
i really wouldnt worry about it. the excise bods have a tough enough job looking after the 1000 or so brewers and 200+ distillers in the uk than to bother themselves over whatever us homebrewers are making .if your wort is as ridiculously strong as 1.200, i honestly think your biggest problem is going to find a yeast thatll chew through it without making it taste like grandpa's plimpsoles coated in a mixture of golden syrup and congealed sulphur :shock:
 
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