Help with my first Lager please.

[Little Rock Brewing]

Hi All. I am brewing my first lager, well an IPL actually as I'm not a great lager fan, from an AG kit.
I'm using MJ M84 yeast and it's currently on day 3 gently bubbling at 12C in the garage.
The instructions say to ferment until 1.012 then store at 4c for 4 weeks.
But no mention of when the dry hops go in. I guess not for the 4 weeks lagering?
I'm concerned about diacetyl too, should I be doing a rest at a higher temp?
Should I rack into a secondary for the lagering?
I've also read about "modern lager" techniques which are much quicker (not that I'm in any hurry).
So much more complicated than my usual 2-2-2 regime!

 

[Brewnaldo]

Diacetyl rest towards the end of fermentation. Maybe after a week or so. As a personal word of warning I have recently done d rests at 18 and 19 degrees for 4 days and it's not been enough so my current plan with the lager I have on is to allow it 5 days active fermentation at 11 degrees then I will start running it up to at least 20 whilst the yeast is still busy. That's me though talking through experience of inadequate rests. As for the dry hops, I have never dry hopped a lager tbh but I think most people add them whilst some fermentation is still active. I guess the issue here is with your plan to raise the temp which might affect the dry hopping flavours....

Maybe do the dry hopping once you have commenced cold crash after the Diacetyl rest?

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

It's a very small dry hop, even though I intend to add some more as it was VERY small!
I think I'll add them in a bag during the last part of active fermentation and into the D rest.
Then take them out for the cold conditioning.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Why not whirlpool instead of dry hop. Once primary fermentation is complete I would move to a secondary and lager for 4 weeks then bottle.
I'm making a Budvar clone currently and used CML Hell at 16C, after 6 days raising the temperature to 18C. Once fermentation is complete I’ll move to the bottling bucket and leave for 2 weeks and then bottle.

 

[dmtaylor]

There are 1000 schools of thought on timing of dry hopping.

Personally I might add half early in the active fermentation, in case there might be any "hop creep" effects. Leave them in 3 days before pulling or racking. Then add the other half a few days before packaging.

Diacetyl rest, IF needed, should be done warm. But diacetyl doesn't always happen. If you don't detect diacetyl, then you can skip this rest.

No need to rack.

With M84, or in fact most lager yeasts, you could safely do the entire fermentation at 18C and get great results, in my experience.

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Why not whirlpool instead of dry hop. Once primary fermentation is complete I would move to a secondary and lager for 4 weeks then bottle.
I'm making a Budvar clone currently and used CML Hell at 16C, after 6 days raising the temperature to 18C. Once fermentation is complete I’ll move to the bottling bucket and leave for 2 weeks and then bottle.

In the original recipe there were no boil hops, just 4g of Simcoe and 4g of Ekuanot at flame out.
I looked at a few other IPL recipes and the IBUs varied from 10 to 40+so I added 28 IBUs in the boil and added some Azacca in the FO and dry hop too.
I think I'll dry hop, then transfer to a secondary/bottling bucket for the cold phase, removing the hops at that point.

 

[Clarence]

Hi All. I am brewing my first lager, well an IPL actually as I'm not a great lager fan, from an AG kit.
I'm using MJ M84 yeast and it's currently on day 3 gently bubbling at 12C in the garage.
The instructions say to ferment until 1.012 then store at 4c for 4 weeks.
But no mention of when the dry hops go in. I guess not for the 4 weeks lagering?
I'm concerned about diacetyl too, should I be doing a rest at a higher temp?
Should I rack into a secondary for the lagering?
I've also read about "modern lager" techniques which are much quicker (not that I'm in any hurry).
So much more complicated than my usual 2-2-2 regime!

You should try brewing a traditional lager. I think you'd find it quite different from the stuff on offer in the shops. Even Special Brew has been denatured and ruined. No need to use German or Czech "noble" hops, New Zealand hops work particularly well. As for "modern lager", if you mean pseudo- or faux-lagers then these are quite a different beast. They are not as crisp as a lager and not a beery as an ale. they like a really fresh summer ale except they can be drunk ate ale temperature or slightly chilled. Very refreshing and they're becoming one of my favourite styles, but for the crispness of a good "pilsner", you need to do the full, cold, bottom-fermenting and lagering thing.

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Update on this one.
All airlock activity stopped for a couple of days and it was ay 1.008.
But the sample definitely tasted of diacetyl so I upped the temp to 18C for 3 days.
Airlock activity started up again too.
Just tasted a sample and the yeast has done it's job on the diacetyl nicely, which I'm pleased about.
So into the fridge now for a few weeks.
Shame as I want to cold crash an IPA that's just about finishing up fermenting.

 

[Clarence]

Update on this one.
All airlock activity stopped for a couple of days and it was ay 1.008.
But the sample definitely tasted of diacetyl so I upped the temp to 18C for 3 days.
Airlock activity started up again too.
Just tasted a sample and the yeast has done it's job on the diacetyl nicely, which I'm pleased about.
So into the fridge now for a few weeks.
Shame as I want to cold crash an IPA that's just about finishing up fermenting.

Why not cold crash the IPA first, for a couple of days and then put your lager in the fridge?

 

[Little Rock Brewing]

Yeah, I think you're right Clarence.