Help me plan my first AG brewery please....

[commsbiff]

Hi all.

I'm finally getting round to planning and building my first ever AG setup and would like some advice in the planning stages so I don't pork it up.

So far I have:

Stand: Made from Unistrut, 2m long, 67cm wide and high. I am hoping to get some old kitchen worktop for the top and bottom (this will help with rigidity of the stand too), with the top having 2 x 60cm diameter holes cut in for my 2 stainless vessels.

Brewing Vessels: I have 2 x 20Gal stainless steel ex-dairy vessels (purchased from fleabay for £50 :party: ). Each is 60cm in diameter with a top lip and supports that I plan to sit on the top worktop surface. Each vessel has slightly sloping sides and a domed bottom with a bottom drain hole which can be plugged by a demi john bung.

Miscelleaneous: I also have a homemade 55L HDPE plastic 2-element boiler.

My initial plan was to use one SS vessel as the HLT and boiler (2,3 or 4 kettle elements?), and the other as the mash tun. I would transfer strike temp water from boiler to mash tun, refill boiler and heat to sparge temp, pump sweet wort to fv, batch sparge from boiler x 2 with sweet wort going to fv and then back to boiler for the boil. All sounds a little complicated, but looks like this:

Am i right in thinking that a normal brew may look like this approximately:

Mash = 25kg grain & (2.5*25) 62.5l liqour
Drain to FV = 35L (after loss to grain)
Sparge 1 = 35L (in and out)
Sparge 2 = 35L (in and out)
Sweet wort = 105L
Bitter wort (correct term?) = 85L (After loss to evaporation and hops)

If I am speaking out of my a**e then please let me know so that I don't ruin some perfectly good equipment. Sorry for bombarding with all this stuff - I hope you don't end up as confused as me :)

PS I've just though that I could use the SS boiler for the strike water and the plastic boiler for the batch sparging - would make things simpler... :hmm:

 

[evanvine]

Personally I would use the plastic boiler for both Strike and Sparge.

 

[commsbiff]

Thanks Jim. I suppose my only concern was that it wouldn't be enough liquor for the strike (if my estimated figures in the original post are close enough to reality), but thinking about it again I could overheat in the hlt and top up with cold water (using 'celsius points' a bit like some use 'sugar points') eg 52l at 88deg C top up with 10l at tap temp = 62l at 75deg C (ish, again estimates).

What do you think?

 

[Aleman]

I don't think you are talking out of your 4rse, but having a seperate HLT does make things easier. My HLT in the (up to) 170L system is simply a pair of well insulated 100L stainless pots. I heat all my liquor (in two batches) in the copper and then transfer to the mash tun and the HLT('s )(Sparge liquor is heated during the mash). I sparge via gravity although I have a small solar pump so might get it pumped eventually.

Try and minimise the transfers you suffer heat loss and have to heat it all back up again. . sweet wort into boiler means it can be heating up during the sparge and saves time and energy.

As for driving the boiler . . . get a couple of proper elements either incalloy immersion elements with proper welded flanges (find a local fabricator), or the Bartlet Water Boiler elements from the heating element company (Only need a pair of 13mm holes to fit . . .plus covers.) . . . you don't need more than 6KW . . . insulate the boiler it'll save time and energy.

 

[jamesb]

As for driving the boiler . . . get a couple of proper elements either incalloy immersion elements with proper welded flanges (find a local fabricator), or the Bartlet Water Boiler elements from the heating element company (Only need a pair of 13mm holes to fit . . .plus covers.) . . . you don't need more than 6KW . . . insulate the boiler it'll save time and energy.

Bartlet? Didn't look right to me. Are you sure you don't mean these? Of course, these don't have a name to them, so they may well be Bartlet.
http://www.heatingelementcompany.co.uk/default.asp?Product=231

 

[Aleman]

Your right the Bartlett is the one above that . . . and not the right one at all . . . I like the pigtail one . . . and any more electric boilers I make will use that one

 

[jamesb]

Have you got a picture of the protection box you used?

 

[Aleman]

Have you got a picture of the protection box you used?

It's all Here

 

[jamesb]

Ta Tony :thumb:

 

[commsbiff]

I don't think you are talking out of your 4rse, but having a seperate HLT does make things easier. My HLT in the (up to) 170L system is simply a pair of well insulated 100L stainless pots. I heat all my liquor (in two batches) in the copper and then transfer to the mash tun and the HLT('s )(Sparge liquor is heated during the mash).

Thanks Aleman. My current plan then is to heat strike water in the copper (due to it's capacity) and sparge water in the HLT (as the copper will be in use holding sweet wort):

I sparge via gravity although I have a small solar pump so might get it pumped eventually.

I don't know much about solar pumps, but an eBay search gave me either solar powered pond type pumps or pumps for use in solar water-heating tubes. I take it the latter, if either, is what you have. I am really trying to keep the cost down for this build - would one of these types of pump be suitable/useable as the sole pump for the system?

As for driving the boiler . . . get a couple of proper elements either incalloy immersion elements with proper welded flanges (find a local fabricator), or the Bartlet Water Boiler elements from the heating element company (Only need a pair of 13mm holes to fit . . .plus covers.) . . . you don't need more than 6KW . . . insulate the boiler it'll save time and energy.

Again, I'm keen to keep the cost down and already have bimetal holesaws ready for kettle type elements. Is the preference for the more expensive types due to reliability? Is there a big difference?

TIA :

 

[commsbiff]

I don't know much about solar pumps, but an eBay search gave me either solar powered pond type pumps or pumps for use in solar water-heating tubes. I take it the latter, if either, is what you have. I am really trying to keep the cost down for this build - would one of these types of pump be suitable/useable as the sole pump for the system?

I see from EV's thread "Solar Pumps" that this website is mentioned as a suitable supplier. Having read the thread there is some discussion about which type to go for: unthreaded (14/10) or threaded (20/20) with no clear winner. I see that with the 14/10 pump it is 6l/min whereas with the 20/20 pump you can get higher power versions (they have 6l, 8l and 11l/min versions) for what appears to be the same price. I also think that a couple of this type of connector would help out. I would therefore be tempted to go for the 20/20 with max power, unless someone wishes to advise against.

Cheers for your patience. :

 

[commsbiff]

I've got the solar pump now - can't wait to get it working.

For my MT false bottom, I've been thinking of getting perforated 316 SS (can you use 304?) with 3mm holes as I can get it cheap. My only concern is that 3mm holes will be too large and I'll get grain stuck in the pump. Should I get 2 to use one for the hop strainer too or is that overkill?

Cheers.

 

[Springer]

Looks like the plan is coming together
When I was putting my boiler together I bought a 2 1/4 bsp coupler from B.E.S. and cut it into three pieces for socket to weld to my vessel. Think it was about £30, cos 2 1/4 is not used much, 2 and 2 !/2 are much cheaper :?
I cut the coupler into 3 pieces but with hindsight, a great thing , I could have made 4, then I could have sold a pair to pay for mine. :lol:
Toolstation do 2 1/4 mechanical flanges for about £12 , don't know if they may be of use ?

May be of use to have a look at my boiler build for more detail. :?

My build

 

[commsbiff]

Springer - excellent work there. I think I'll end up doing something alot more amateur than that though. I've never welded, don't have the equipment and don't have any mates :cry: (who can and have :) ) Thanks for your ideas though, it looks great.

Here's my Unistrut stand and my as yet unconverted mash tun and boiler:

Inside of one of them - markings I think are 5 Gal (so I on't have 125L as originally thought ):

 

[rickthebrew]

looking good comms :thumb: good to see you back on the forum as well

 

[Mark1964]

Looks interesting keep us all up to date with the build

 

[Springer]

That looks a very promising start to me Comms
Those elements that Aleman mentioned look good to me, just need a suitable enclosure to protect the terminals :hmm:
That was one of the reason that I went for immersions and also a cheaper long term solution, but think next build I might use them.
Keep us posted on progress
S