Heat Source Pumps.

[Chippy_Tea]

@Victor Churchill I think using electric is too expensive and that's why we Al use gas that will change soon and they will be the same so electric may become more popular.

 

[GhostShip]

The more I read about heat pumps the more I'm convinced that there's going to be a massive U-turn somewhere along the line. Massively inefficient in houses that are not so well insulated (i.e. older houses) and struggle in colder climes (like Scotland, for example). I know they're used in Scandinavia, but their houses are built differently because of their winters - usually timber built with superb insulation. Banning gas boilers after a certain date and replacing them with heat pumps is a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion.

 

[Victor Churchill]

@Victor Churchill I think using electric is too expensive and that's why we Al use gas that will change soon and they will be the same so electric may become more popular.

To be sure, on my old (gonebust) supplier's tarriff gas was one fifth of the price of electricity per kWh. I'm pretty sure that's going to change come April and thereafter.

 

[Victor Churchill]

Highland Council installed these Wet electric boiler systems a few years back Victor.

There was utter outrage at the cost of running them,Public meetings were held at which the attending Council officers were given a right roasting.

Over the next few years the council ripped them all out and replaced them with gas boilers.
In my case this amounted to nearly 70% anual heating savings.

Ouch! I'd never heard of that, John. Although the Scottish system used electric heating elements, like you'd find in an immersion heater or kettle or wall mounted instant hot water heater, rather than induction heating. I'm going to have to get onto my mate who has a bee in his bonnet about electric induction and get some comparison figures. Thank you for the reference.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Banning gas boilers after a certain date and replacing them with heat pumps is a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion.

You also have to question how environmentally friendly a scrap heap of millions of gas boilers and the mining of the materials needed to produce millions of heat pumps is.

 

[GhostShip]

You also have to question how environmentally friendly a scrap heap of millions of gas boilers and the mining of the materials needed to produce millions of heat pumps is.

They really don't worry about detail like that. Here's wind turbine blades being put into landfill once their life is over. The blades are non-recyclable, made with petrol chemically-produced resin.

 

[Rover69]

I would like a wood burner but the house next door makes our life a near misery with the smell of their smoke when the wind is in the wrong direction (for us) so I am holding fire (ha ha) at the moment.
What I hope will happen is the Government will eventually ban woodburners being used in day light hours at least.
I am sorry, but anyone that doesn't believe we have created this mess for ourselves is in denial.
Do not expect many likes for this post but it is what it is!
Whilst on about next door anyone any ideas how I can shut there dogs up without shooting them, or losing my voice shouting at them?

There is an online series of courses run by Future Learn on global warming/climate change its causes and ways of possibly negating its effects. If you can spare three hours a week well worth the time and effort, just google.

If the dogs are outside while barking talk to them.I used to garden for a woman whose neighbour left a large angry sounding/looking dog outside.Everytime I went I used to talk to it and I could see it through the hedge.Eventually it stopped barking each time I went and let me stroke it through the something I wouldn't have attempted a few week previous.

 

[johncrobinson]

Induction heating is no more efficient

ALL Elecric heaters are 100% efficient be they new,old or ancient .
Its a principle of thermodynamics called entropy that everyhing ends up as heat
The equation is W=I2R and applies to everything.

Its how its used is the point.

Paradoxicaly the only real "over unity" device discovered to date is the heat pump.
Unfortunately they might end up as industrial noise level generaters in a domestic setting.

Designing and Installing advanced controllers and industrial systems is trivial to me, Shifting air and pumping fluids it was my job.
BUT i did all this on industrial estates not peacefull urban settinge.

A lot of American city dwellers are familar with the drone of there neigbours cooling some driven insane with the noise of there neigbours " AIR CON"
yes folks thats a heat pump during the day.In hot climates.

We have the opposite problem here in uk the noise will take place at night when everone wants P&Q.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

We are surrounded by water why not use waves?

Short answer is cost Chippy - there's been 4 turbines in the Pentland Firth for a few years now with a capacity of 6MW, but they cost over £200/MWh. They've been trying to qualify for subsidies for a much bigger extension, but have consistently been beaten by the falling cost of offshore wind. Now that offshore wind has got to the stage where it no longer needs subsidising, they're hoping to have another go in the new auction - they're talking about £100/MWh, maybe £90/MWh in time - which compares to a bit over £90/MWh for Hinkley Point nuclear, and £40/MWh for the latest offshore wind.

And you can't just put them anywhere, it's much better where the sea gets "squeezed" eg in the Pentland Firth or off the Channel Islands.

You also have to question how environmentally friendly a scrap heap of millions of gas boilers and the mining of the materials needed to produce millions of heat pumps is.

The whole point of the 2035 deadline is that nobody needs to be scrapping gas boilers to install heat pumps - the average life of a boiler is 10-15 years, so the heat pump option needs to be compared, not against nothing, but against mining minerals to produce millions of replacement gas boilers.

A few examples would be:-
North sea oil will have us all living like the arab Oil Shieks "loaded"
Atomic power would see electric so cheap it would be given away FREE.
With the silicon chip revoulution in the future no-one will need to work more than 1 day a week.

The list is actually far longer and more extensive than this.

You really need better sources of information, nobody credible was saying North Sea oil would have us "living like sheikhs". We have about the same amount of North Sea oil as Norway, but with 12x the population. And the thing about nuclear power being too cheap to meter was in relation to nuclear fusion, not nuclear fission.

 

[johncrobinson]

Sorry Northern brewer Unitil recently (19yrs ago) i had a pristine copy of 1970 "Tomorows Wold".
Great fanfare they made about north sea oil and gas.
The government encouraged it ,Now Aberdeen and a few of the chosen few did indeed prosper mightly

The main change for the rest of the uk was to have thier apliences converted.
I got a new Bunsen Burner,

 

[johncrobinson]

Nope northern brewer I was not refering to fusion

I was infact refering to a 1950s article about Calder Hall a magnox fission reactor.
Complete whith a photo of a very young looking Queen.

 

[johncrobinson]

They even thought cars,homes,plane and ships would be all nuculear in a few years at the time.
What was a game changer was chernoble in the mid 1980s
At a company exibition in Germany that year ,My sales manager expressed doubts to me about using the term saturable reactor in our sales literature about a product.
But I am in favour of nuculear power it just must NOT BE DONE ON A SHOESTRING.
Which kind of rules out the uk.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

The whole point of the 2035 deadline is that nobody needs to be scrapping gas boilers to install heat pumps - the average life of a boiler is 10-15 years, so the heat pump option needs to be compared, not against nothing, but against mining minerals to produce millions of replacement gas boilers.

We live in far too much of a “throw away” world. As recently as two years ago I had to replace my 24 year old gas boiler and the only reason I had to was because the £2.99 gasket that seals the flue had split but the part had been discontinued. So, I replaced my D rated boiler with a far more efficient A+ Rated one whereby the money I saved on gas would pay for the new boiler in 17 years. Yes, just about the time I will need to scrap it!

 

[MrRook]

Whilst on about next door anyone any ideas how I can shut there dogs up without shooting them, or losing my voice shouting at them?

Don't waste your energy shouting. All the dog hears is something barking back at them which just encourages them to bark more.

 

[johncrobinson]

One thing is for sure,My kids generation,(if i personally had had them.) are now up in arms and facing desperate times for there loved ones.
No longer can they spend a night in the pub with there mates and totty having a good time.
nowadays its Can we afford this, Can we afford that, Can we afford the other.!!
Its like how the 1920s-1930s was decribed to me by my long late father

I know I know says the 20yr old go getter
Letts sit in all night alone and get bored dandieng kids before bed time and getting high to numb out the boredom.!!!
We cant afford anything else dear
BTW sorry i battered you last night dear
It must have been a bad batch of gear

What a horrible prospect.

A parody i know But that seems to be the direction.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Sorry Northern brewer Unitil recently (19yrs ago) i had a pristine copy of 1970 "Tomorows Wold".
Great fanfare they made about north sea oil and gas.
The government encouraged it ,Now Aberdeen and a few of the chosen few did indeed prosper mightly

A "great fanfare" is different to "rich as sheikhs". The North Sea made a tremendous difference to UK finances, of the order of £100bn's - but spread among 60 million of us that only amounts to £5k on average.

Nope northern brewer I was not refering to fusion

I was infact refering to a 1950s article about Calder Hall a magnox fission reactor.

Calder Hall opened in 1956, but the "too cheap to meter" quote dates back to a speech in 1954 by Lewis Strauss of the US Atomic Energy Commission. Even at the time people in the industry thought "Nobody took Strauss’ statement very seriously", but it's one of those catchy phrases that persisted.

They even thought cars,homes,plane and ships would be all nuculear in a few years at the time.
What was a game changer was chernoble in the mid 1980s

Nope, the game changer was the fact that fossil fuels stayed cheap and doing nuclear properly was just too expensive in comparison. The US Navy did a study about 10 years ago looking at nuclear power for their warships, and concluded that in purely economic terms it needed an oil price of somewhere between $80 and $240 per barrel (or something like that) to make sense, depending on a ship's annual mileage - nuclear is high upfront costs and relatively low running costs whereas for oil most of the costs are in the fuel and so are proportional to mileage.

What you're talking about is no more than the usual hype cycle - people get super excited about a new technology before it's fully ready, then disillusionment sets in, then a more balanced view emerges. It's completely normal.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

What a horrible prospect.

Add to that the fact many unskilled jobs will soon be done by robots so those at the bottom of the ladder are going to have no hope of getting a job, I believe a store recently opened that has no checkouts this will be the thin end of the wedge.

 

[johncrobinson]

Hey northen brewer man I do not get personal On any of these threads.
Personly i recocnise your own contribution And I hope i will contiue to be your friend.

 

[trummy]

Thanks for those that gave advice re the dogs barking - they except me, its when cars visit the garage at the back of their house that sets them off. They are behind a 6ft fence so no eye contact possible or even a blast from my hose! They do shut up if I yell (a case of who shouts loudest maybe?) If they get in the grove they are on all day.
I am not happy re confronting the neighbour as she lost her husband end of last year and it affected her badly. So I will have to continue on as best I can.

Have to say I have enjoyed this thread - difficult subject as it is

 

[johncrobinson]

Its amazing how a few comments ignites a good healthy debate.

Long live democrocy ( I now my spell check is "us")

What is the "people"
They are folk who have raised thier own families,and bairns through thick and thin, Sometimes with huge personal sacrifice.