Hazy Yeast. What does it bring to the party?

[An Ankoù]

I've been thinking of making a batch of Pacific Ale from Stone & Wood. Here's the description from their website:
A hand-crafted pale ale from Stone and Wood in Byron Bay, Australia, Pacific Ale gets its name from the brewery's home next to the Pacific Ocean. Made with a combination of Australian barley and wheat this is a hazy, bready beer with juicy, fruity notes created by Galaxy hops.

I gather this is a low-bitterness beer with loads of late Galaxy, which might impart a certain haziness. Then I thought that maybe the yeast adds some character and is a low-floc variety so I thought CML Haze might be just the ticket. Here's the spec:
HAZE. US Ale Yeast.
Suitable to brew ales with low esters, leaving a slight haze.
Attenuation: 75%
Fermentation: ideally 15-20°C (59-68°F)
Flocculation: Low
Max ABV 9% in 20 litres- Pitching Rate: 50g/100 litres
INGREDIENTS:Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), emulsifier E49
What to expect? Similar US-05 but leaves a slight haze

My question is WHY? I understand that some beers- hefeweizen for example take their character from the yeast, which is often left in suspension, but what's the point of using a low-ester yeast which doesn't clear? If I'd used CML Five or US-05 and it didn't clear, I'd be sure there was something wrong with my process. I'm missing something here. Can anyone shed any light. Answers on a postcard, please.

"bready beer" is part of the description. That doesn't sound like US-05. Which yeasts leave a "bready" flavour apart from Allinson's Easy Bake?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I believe they add to the “juicy” impression. NEIPAs are all about soft, juicy, fruity, full-bodied character and if the beer looks like fruit juice you’re half way there.

Edit: I should have noted some yeasts are haze promoting, others are haze neutral. The hazy or juicy yeasts are those that are haze promoting. It’s thought (but the mechanism seems to be not properly understood) that the haze promoting yeasts help to complex the polyphenols and proteins that make up the great majority of the haze.

 

[clib]

Wyeast 1318 is the most widely used strain for hazy pales. Verdant IPA is the dried version and is widely used too. Clipper seems to be CML version and would be the best choice from theirs, I think.

The haziness in hazy pales shouldn't come from poor flocculation of yeast. It is a product of proteins and polyphenols. Hence the additions of unmalted wheat, oats, and lots of hops.

 

[An Ankoù]

The haziness in hazy pales shouldn't come from poor flocculation of yeast. It is a product of proteins and polyphenols. Hence the additions of unmalted wheat, oats, and lots of hops.

Fair comment. But it brings me back to the question, what is the purpose of hazy yeasts like CML Haze. Pacific Ale isn't an NEIPA although it does contain some wheat. I'll look up and post the most likely recipe.
Edit:
Yeah, 60g of dry hops in 20 litres might do it.

Doesn't answer my q. though.

 

[clib]

Fair comment. But it brings me back to the question, what is the purpose of hazy yeasts like CML Haze. Pacific Ale isn't an NEIPA although it does contain some wheat. I'll look up and post the most likely recipe.

I'd say it is mainly marketing. In the case of CML Haze, probably the marketing of a yeast i wouldn't want! Don't look to yeast for haze, look to yeast for good beer. Flavour, mouthfeel, malt and hop expression.

 

[chthon]

I think it's a case of the tail wagging the dog. The original NEIPAs were hazy because of all the artefacts of the hopping throughout the brewing process, and this has been turned on its head, as "because it is hazy it must be a NEIPA" (never bothered for the style).

 

[The Baron]

In my opinion haze is one of those trick the eyes scenario, it adds to the impression it is juice looking so the perception is created that tricks the brain maybe.
I too like Clib would choose a yeast for purpose and not for haze personally

 

[Nicks90]

We eat with our eyes and taste with our nose, so the 'look' can be a significant part of the overall impression and experience

Spray your food blue and psychologically you will immediately not want to eat it, then pinch your nose and everything will taste of nothing but vague salty/sweet

 

[An Ankoù]

We eat with our eyes and taste with our nose, so the 'look' can be a significant part of the overall impression and experience

Spray your food blue and psychologically you will immediately not want to eat it, then pinch your nose and everything will taste of nothing but vague salty/sweet

And therein lies the rub. Cloudy beer is something you give back to the barman and tell him it's not quite right. Exceptions, yes. Hefeweizen for example is expected to be cloudy unless its kristall. I suppose NEIPAs and Milkshake IPAs (whatever they are) are supposed to be cloudy, too, and I'm advised that that's linked to the mouthfeel. If I drank those kinds of beers, I'd, no doubt, expect them to be thick and juicy like orange juice on the pulp. But "a slight haze" is neither one thing nor the other in my book. It's characteristic of beer that isn't quite ready or has been badly poured from the bottle.
Of course, as @Nicks90 points out, it all a matter of aesthetics. If we drank from a pewter mug or a krug then the question would be academic. Thanks everybody, for your thoughts. I'm not sure I'm persuaded one way or the other. One last question: has anyone actually used CML Haze? What are your thoughts? (That's two last questions).

 

[clib]

It's a matter of taste. I like a bit of haze. Not milky or murky though. Not bothered about NEIPAs either.

 

[Braufather]

I’m not a fan of full on NEIPAs but like slightly hazy pales. I I find I get that with US05 if there are lots of dry hops anyway. Whilst it stays hazy it’s juicy but when the haze eventually drops it coincides with corresponding drop in flavour.

 

[Pennine]

What about one of these?

I like clear beer but it's really yeast driven in my experience.

 

[Pennine]

So I have a question for you @An Ankoù why do you all use CML yeasts and not just go to the source so you have a better idea of what you are using? I would use S-04 or Llalemand New England for that recipe.

 

[An Ankoù]

So I have a question for you @An Ankoù why do you all use CML yeasts and not just go to the source so you have a better idea of what you are using? I would use S-04 or Llalemand New England for that recipe.

I've found four recipes for this beer and, while they're all slightly different, they all call for US-05. I was going to use CML Five, but got sidetracked by the word "hazy (and bready)" in the beer description so it was just a bit of musing on why they deliberately make a yeast that tastes like US-05 but leaves the beer hazy. If it's a function of the 60g of dry hops in 20L then fair enough, but I don't see why a yeast should be hazy if it doesn't add anything else. But your point is well taken.

 

[Bzee]

I love verdant I think it brings a soft pillowy feel to the beer and in my opinion some of the hop aromas remain in suspension far better in a cloudy beer.

 

[WonkyDonkey]

I've been thinking of making a batch of Pacific Ale from Stone & Wood. Here's the description from their website:
A hand-crafted pale ale from Stone and Wood in Byron Bay, Australia, Pacific Ale gets its name from the brewery's home next to the Pacific Ocean. Made with a combination of Australian barley and wheat this is a hazy, bready beer with juicy, fruity notes created by Galaxy hops.

I gather this is a low-bitterness beer with loads of late Galaxy, which might impart a certain haziness. Then I thought that maybe the yeast adds some character and is a low-floc variety so I thought CML Haze might be just the ticket. Here's the spec:
HAZE. US Ale Yeast.
Suitable to brew ales with low esters, leaving a slight haze.
Attenuation: 75%
Fermentation: ideally 15-20°C (59-68°F)
Flocculation: Low
Max ABV 9% in 20 litres- Pitching Rate: 50g/100 litres
INGREDIENTS:Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), emulsifier E49
What to expect? Similar US-05 but leaves a slight haze

My question is WHY? I understand that some beers- hefeweizen for example take their character from the yeast, which is often left in suspension, but what's the point of using a low-ester yeast which doesn't clear? If I'd used CML Five or US-05 and it didn't clear, I'd be sure there was something wrong with my process. I'm missing something here. Can anyone shed any light. Answers on a postcard, please.

"bready beer" is part of the description. That doesn't sound like US-05. Which yeasts leave a "bready" flavour apart from Allinson's Easy Bake?

I've got this on my 'to brew' list too. From what I've gathered it contains a large (30 ish%) amount of wheat in it so that could account for the haze? US05 sounds right for it

 

[An Ankoù]

I've got this on my 'to brew' list too. From what I've gathered it contains a large (30 ish%) amount of wheat in it so that could account for the haze? US05 sounds right for it

Some recipes say rolled (flaked) wheat, others say wheat malt. One adds rolled oats although there are no oats mentioned on the side of the can. I think I'll be going with the flaked what and no oats.
If you do brew it up then let us know how you get on.
S&W save just been taken over by Lion so it might get distributed a bit further afield. I'm getting a bit fed up of making beers I've never tested. The last one was 8-Arch Corbel, but at least I only have to hop over the Channel to pick up a case.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

And therein lies the rub. Cloudy beer is something you give back to the barman and tell him it's not quite right.

10 years ago that was true, but things have changed - at least in the UK. But our cask culture made us particularly prize clear beer, as cloudy beer was associated with either the final dregs of the cask, or yeast in the cask getting disturbed/not-fined. So cloudy = bad. But in the last 10 years people have got used to the idea that cloudy doesn't necessarily mean "bad" - not just from NEIPAs, but the wider availability of wheat beers, kellerpils etc. And that greater tolerance has allowed brewers to do things differently, including using hops with more polyphenols like Galaxy, and grists with more protein for more mouthfeel, even in what Jeff Alworth calls "juicy bitter".

But there's also a wider trend.

But "a slight haze" is neither one thing nor the other in my book. It's characteristic of beer that isn't quite ready or has been badly poured from the bottle.

This is like going down to your boulangerie and complaining that their bread is off-white - neither bleached pearly white like Sunblest nor fully wholemeal. And no doubt the baker would tell you where to go, because it tastes great and who cares what it looks like, it's just a sign that it's not as processed or artificial as Sunblest.

Well we're seeing something similar going on in beer. Where before people obsessed about clarity, now it's more about minimising processing to ensure the best possible taste, and if that leaves some haze then so what. Dammit, if Stella have jumped on the unfiltered bandwagon, you know it's a thing.

 

[An Ankoù]

Haven't been in the UK for some 6 years now and things must have changed a lot.

10 years ago that was true, but things have changed - at least in the UK. But our cask culture made us particularly prize clear beer, as cloudy beer was associated with either the final dregs of the cask, or yeast in the cask getting disturbed/not-fined. So cloudy = bad. But in the last 10 years people have got used to the idea that cloudy doesn't necessarily mean "bad" - not just from NEIPAs, but the wider availability of wheat beers, kellerpils etc. And that greater tolerance has allowed brewers to do things differently, including using hops with more polyphenols like Galaxy, and grists with more protein for more mouthfeel, even in what Jeff Alworth calls "juicy bitter".

But there's also a wider trend.

This is like going down to your boulangerie and complaining that their bread is off-white - neither bleached pearly white like Sunblest nor fully wholemeal. And no doubt the baker would tell you where to go, because it tastes great and who cares what it looks like, it's just a sign that it's not as processed or artificial as Sunblest.

Well we're seeing something similar going on in beer. Where before people obsessed about clarity, now it's more about minimising processing to ensure the best possible taste, and if that leaves some haze then so what. Dammit, if Stella have jumped on the unfiltered bandwagon, you know it's a thing.

Haven't been in the UK for some time now (but only 6 years) and things must have changed a lot. Unfiltered Stella? Sounds good for the flavour of the lager, but does it have to be cloudy to prove it's unfiltered? None of my lagers are filtered and they're crystal clear!
Pacific Ale, I take it, is hazy from the massive charge of Galaxy. Haziness/cloudiness seems to have become an end in itself if oats are added to a recipe that shouldn't contain them and yeasts are developed which contribute nothing exceptional but haziness itself!

I should add that you can shove your baguettes where the sun don't shine. Limp-wristed excuse for bread. Lidl rye bread isn't bad, but I usually make my own. 1kg flour, 250g caramalt, 2 tablespoons caraway, 2 more of juniper berries, oil, "baking liquor", salt and yeast. Serve with black pudding and fried eggs or Greek yoghurt and rhubarb jam.

 

[chthon]

I made beers with wheat malt, oats and wheat flour, but all my beers always end up crystal clear.

I know only one example of somewhat hazy beer that is not an IPA, and that's the Paix Dieu tripel.

Maybe there should also be a quantitave definition of hazy, cloudy and murky. I don't mind a little haze. About the rest I have my doubts.