Have I been mislead?

[aamcle]

I've read lots of posts in the kit review section to the effect that this or that kit is fantastic, well I've just done a Festival Landlords and a BetterBrew Pilsner ( in soft water) both following the instructions, both fermented in a temperature controlled brew fridge.
The kits are OK, fantastic compared to the kits I used to do in the late 70 s early 80s but that's as far as it goes they are OK not great not fantastic.

So am I too picky? Or have I missed something?

So I'm putting up poll. :whistle:

Were would a well made AG sit on the list of options? I do though realise that it will take a bit of time to build skills...... I'm going boil in the bag asap :-) and don't want to be disappointed.


Atb. Aamcle

 

[RobWalker]

our all grains can be better than brewery quality. mine are good, not up with the really great cask ales, but still good, better than the likes of john smiths etc. you have to remember there's no real restriction on brewing environment, ingredients, possibilities with us. breweries need to do things in a way that is both great tasting AND commercially viable.

maybe you should try a wherry. honestly, the more you spend on a kit, the better it is. :thumb:

 

[FuzzySteve]

Kits are a great introduction to brewing, but still taste like homebrew in my experience. Going AG takes things to a whole new level, and provides you with infinite control over the minutiae of brewing.

 

[Pearlfisher]

Try one of these before you go AG http://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/hbc ... -1688.html

infinitely better than Wherry IMO.

 

[RobWalker]

that's a good price too pearlfisher. :thumb:

 

[hairybiker]

It 100% depends on the kit. A GOOD twin tin kit can be as good as an AG brew, if not better in some circumstances.
It you buy the cheapest kit and use 100% sugar then you are in much the same position as you were in the 80's. A better kit (ok dearer) will produce better results.

 

[Pearlfisher]

that's a good price too pearlfisher. :thumb:

It's that good it'll give Bathams best bitter a run for it's money. :drink:

 

[RobWalker]

heh, you may be in worcestershire, but I know a man who likes his brummie beers when I see one

I did the all grain clone of that before by the way, it was awesome, we drank the lot pretty quickly! a cracking pint :

 

[ScottM]

I believe the main downfall with a GOOD kit is the yeast. When brewing AG most brewers will use a good yeast strain, perfectly aimed towards their style of beer. The kits will tend to use a dried, generic yeast that's capable of fermenting at a wild range of temps and styled to be generic.

Brewing the kit with a good strain of yeast alone would see amazing results IMO. If the hops are lacking, then a dry hop or even a hop tea would help. Tweaking a kit is very important to get the most of it, the better the kit the less tweaking required but there's always room for improvement.

AG is the ultimate in customising. With a kit you are basically stuck with the style that you buy in the guise that it's in. To make a kit on par with AG you would need to tweak it. AG is infinitely variable so it's always going to be spot on for the individual.

AG is a step to far for me at the moment, extract is where it's at for me. You get a happy medium between the customisability of AG (not QUITE, but close enough) and the simplicity of a kit (again, not QUITE, but close enough). BIAB, like you are about to try, is also a great level to work at.

 

[Pearlfisher]

heh, you may be in worcestershire, but I know a man who likes his brummie beers when I see one

I did the all grain clone of that before by the way, it was awesome, we drank the lot pretty quickly! a cracking pint :

Black Country escapee

 

[Cononthebarber]

I've had some really good results from kits by using a different yeast, using S-04 yeast in any kit IMO will make a big difference to the taste, body and mouthfeel...as ScottM says, most kits have a generic yeast which will not give great results.

The way I look at it is very much like comparing a ready meal to a home cooked meal. Even if you buy an expensive ready meal from the "premium" range in the supermarkets, its never going to be as good as the same meal cooked properly at home from scratch. The best kit I've made was Woodfordes Wherry, great ale and would not be disappointed if I bought it in a pub.

 

[RobWalker]

so, it is possible

 

[artyb]

ive had a few good lagers and stouts .. the bitters were less good...

BIAB ..ftw... :party:

 

[jonnymorris]

A GOOD twin tin kit can be as good as an AG brew, if not better in some circumstances.

I'm not convinced.

 

[wilsoa1111]

A GOOD twin tin kit can be as good as an AG brew, if not better in some circumstances.

I'm not convinced.

agreed, AG allows too much customisation for it not to be better when everything is even (for you personally)
saying that a generic kit really tweaked to perfection (steeped grains, proper sugars, extra hops) will beat your first AG its unfortunate but probably true the AG will be a third of the price like but take 3 times as long to make

 

[Plumber79]

I would pay pub prices for the wherry kit I did. I thought it was superb :

 

[winelight]

aamcle - you say you followed the instructions - that is probably the problem, if you read these forums carefully you will see we never do that! The whole point of this forum (I am led to believe) is to get infinitely better quality even from cheap kits by NOT following the instructions. Fermenting longer, chilling to settle, secondary for longer, conditioning for longer... and NOT adding sugar but adding DME / LME / dextrose / treacle / molasses / dark sugars, whatever, and/or by changing the yeast, adding hop tea, dry hopping... you name it.

 

[aamcle]

I think I should point out that the Festival Kit is a top of the range two can job with a bag of hops for dry hopping, no further additions need be made, no added sugar.

Atb. Aamcle

 

[winelight]

That did occur to me after I posted, but that still leaves how long did you ferment for, did you then move it to the cold for a week and/or rack to a second FV, how long in the warm for secondary fermentation, and how long to condition? And what temperature did you ferment at? And did you use the kit yeast? A recent discussion suggested it's still worthwhile changing the yeast even in top of the range kits.

Even with such kits I usually add more LME, anyway. And hop tea.

 

[aamcle]

Fermented at 20±1°C with kit yeast, finished in 10 days but left for a further two days then racked (day 12) into bottling bucket and left in an unheated garage for about 2weeks then bulk primed and bottled.

Into the house to carbonate but after 10 days still flat so moved them into a brew fridge at 24°C for another week to finish carbonating.

Been stored in cold garage ever since.

I've a question there was empty (air filled) head space in the bottling bucket could that be a problem?


Thanks. Aamcle