graysalchemy = cider genius

[calumscott]

Finally, I've got my cider yeast starter started.

The best bit is that it meant drinking the top half of a bottle of grays' Scrumpy TC from last year.

When he tells you that you need 6+ months of bulk ageing and a healthy malolactic fermentation, listen to him. He speaks the truth.

The only thing wrong was probably my fault - I was told it was lively but it caught me unawares and I lost near half the bottle!!! I poured off a bit to stop the gush and let it settle back a bit so as to get a reasonable amount of yeast harvested.

Poured it then got the starter on.

Then finally tasted the cider...

Easily as good as any artisan cider I've ever tasted and a hell of a lot better than some! I simply can't believe the difference between this and mine which aged for 3 and half months, incredible, just incredible!!!

This is really real, proper scrumpy style cider from supermarket juice.

Gobsmacked. (And very hopeful for my batch for next year!!!)

:

 

[graysalchemy]

Stop it now Callum you are embarising me.

Well I have put a few in the fridge for later, so I will see if it has improved since I last had some.

I actually don't drink it that often as I enjoy beer more.

Thanks for the appreciation I am only passing on what I have learnt from others on here namely aleman and further afield :thumb:

 

[Djtrouble1982]

We're in Manchester are u I want a taste lol

 

[graysalchemy]

Eccles your welcome to try a bottle :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

Stop it now Callum you are embarising me.

'tis no more than your cider deserves. If this years batch with your yeast comes out anywhere near as good I'll be totally ****-a-hoop.

 

[graysalchemy]

There is every possibility, its not actually rocket science all it takes is the right ingredients and time. As long as you have malic acid and lactobacillus then you will get a half decent cider. Even if you don't use old Rosie Lactobacilus are everywhere and it should get infected, my sourdough starter did :lol: :lol: .

 

[Che Banana]

Is there a thread that ties all of your practices together in a 'how to' type thing?

 

[graysalchemy]

Sorry there isn't CB. However the philosophy is very simple and the recipe even easier.

Basically the recipe is

1 Gallon of 100% apple juice any of the supermarket budget brands will do as long as it is 100% apple
1 tsp Tannin
1tsp Malic acid
1 tsp of pectolase enzyme (optional if you want cloudy cider).

Cider yeast (a culture from a bottle of old rosie is best)

Basically mix them all together. Once it starts clearing rack it into a clean FV and leave it for at least six months to allow malolactic fermentation to occur.

Now the philosophy behind it is quite simple, if you want a scrumpy style cider you need to firstly mimic the apples that they use as drinking apple juice is made up of dessert apples. These are different to cider apples in that they have lower levels of tannin and lower levels of malic acid. Tannin gives cider its bite and malic acid is what gets converted during maturation to lactic acid and a whole host of other flavours. It is this that gives the cider its 'Farmyard Twang'. So once it has fermented it needs to be allowed to undergo malolactic fermentation. This is where a lactobacillus will convert the malic acid into the less harsh lactic acid and also these other flavour compounds. This needs time so we need to mimic what small scale cider producers do and that is just leave it to mature for 6 months or so.

When you do this the cider should look like this

It may well smell a bit vinegary but also like a farmyard. It will also taste like cider and not vinegar. Now this is a process which should occour naturally with lactobacillus which are present in the air. However some people have had problems. Now if you make up a yeast culture from a bottle of Westons Old Rosie then not only will you be introducing the cider yeast but more importantly the Lactobacillus. Details on how to do this can be found here.

Some people use sugar in there cider to make it stronger. i don't not that I don't like strong drinks but because sugar dilutes the flavour. Cider especially when you is insipid enough. IMHO it doesn't do the cider justice.

If you want to make a cheap parkbench style cider it is probably cheaper to go to the off licence and by a bottle of tramp juice, but if you want a decent craft brewed cider then you can't go to wrong if you follow the above instructions.

Cheers

 

[The Goatreich]

A question I've always pondered after seeing the above picture of malolactic fermentation is would this work in a demijohn, or does the ML fermentation require a large surface area as in the picture?

 

[calumscott]

It should work in a DJ however the accepted norm amongst cider makers is that cider is best done in bulk and the bigger the better!

Thatchers for example use vats that take hundreds or thousands of gallons and there the cider stays over winter.

And that's the trouble really - how do you do experimental batches if you need the bulk to age them properly?

Anyway, my starter is started and I'll be brewing up exactly this again, but with better yeast (Youngs cider last time) and a known lactobacilus culture, 5 gallons should go on in a couple of weeks and it won't get bottled until the end of May... :)

 

[graysalchemy]

My large youngs wine fermenters are filled to the top so only have a 3-4" surface area, so no it won't make a difference. However like wine aging it is best done in bulk. :thumb:

 

[The Goatreich]

Cheers both. I'm not really a cider drinker, so I'm not that interested in tying up a FV for 6 months plus, and also then having 40 odd bottles of cider sitting there taking up room. However I do like the odd glass on a summer's day, and also it's nice to have some in stock when friends come round as it's another choice I can offer to them.

I'll try it in a DJ and see how it goes.

 

[calumscott]

Keep us posted on how you get on. It'll be good to know if you can get a decent age and MLF in the DJ - that way experimental juices and things could be done and aged properly without wasting 23l of juice! :thumb:

 

[The Goatreich]

Will do, I made up a DJ of simple turbo cider around a year ago, and I still have about 4 bottles left. It's not too bad, but at the same time, not much nicer than tramp juice, to a non-cider drinker like myself. It'll be interesting to see the difference with GA's additional steps.

 

[calumscott]

You will not be dissapointed!!

I thought mine was pretty good (and TBH I still do, just in a different way) until I tried GA's!

 

[Che Banana]

Thanks for the low down. Will be trying this soon.... I have a large 23L demijon not doing anything.

 

[Asalpaws]

I just racked my second batch from the primary demijohn into a secondary with 5 grams of oak chips. Used a smack pack of the WY stuff this time, probably massive over pitching as about 1/3 of the dj was yeast when I racked off. I followed the recipe above, so hopefully should get some funky bacterial secondary fermentation. Put in the back of the shed next to my batch of kreik to forget about (unlikley), cheers gray!